Immobiliser dilema

[tidyclio]

I've been having problems with my immobiliser for a while now. Basically the bit for the central locking had broke of the key but it still worked to start the car. Then after leaving it for two weeks while on holiday it has stopped starting and the immobiliser light was staying lit.I phoned the AA and they told me it was the key without doing any checks.

I couldn't understand how the key could just lose it's programing so kept trying to start it and eventually it started. A couple of times it cut out on me and didn't restart for about half an hour. It has also been cutting out in reverse and then immobilising itself.

Now about a month after the problem started it's back and won't start. I had left the car sitting for 3 days and when I have tried to start it the immobiliser light is staying lit. I got a new decoder ring, new TDC sensor, changed all the relays and tried cleaning as many earths as I can find and changed the battery and it has made no difference.

Now i'm thinking it might be the key so phoned Renault who have said it is £120 for the key including programing, but if I want them to diagnose it first I will be charged £165 plus I have the issue of getting the car towed there. I have spoke to an auto locksmith who has said that he thinks it won't be the key if it works sometimes and not others, he said it will be an underlying immobiliser problem. He did say if I needed a key he could come to my house and do it for £130 all in but I will need to get the immobiliser code from Renault which is another £15 and again no guarantees it will work.

I really don't know what the best thing to do is I have run out of ideas of what the check and don't know whether to take the chance with a new key.

 

[donsrno1]

What model is it?

 

[tidyclio]

Sorry forgot to mention that it's a mk2 ph2.

Even if anybody who has had intermittent problems in the past with the light staying on where a new key has solved the problem it would be helpful to know.

 

[scala]

I phoned Renault (Orpington) today about the costs of a replacement key. They quoted me £90 to cut the key and £60 to programme it - £150 in total. Hardly the bargain of the century, but needs must.

 

[tidyclio]

Scala my local dealers said they charge £62 for the plip part of the key and £30 odds to program it, the rest is vat. Mine is possibly cheaper because I don't need a new key blade I will just put the old one in.
If you definetly need a new key though try auto locksmiths they might be slightly more competitive you never know.

 

[tidyclio]

Bump-Hoping someone who has had problems before can share there experiences.

 

[scala]

Scala my local dealers said they charge £62 for the plip part of the key and £30 odds to program it, the rest is vat. Mine is possibly cheaper because I don't need a new key blade I will just put the old one in.
If you definetly need a new key though try auto locksmiths they might be slightly more competitive you never know.

I've only got key and really need a backup in case I lose it.

 

[heathbrowning]

Mine was doing this last December. Sometimes the immobiliser light would not turn off which meant the car would not start. Sometimes it would which meant it would start. In the end it refused all together. I towed it to Renault and they diagnosed it as a faulty 'plip' which tells the immobiliser via the decoder ring that the car is not being nicked. They ordered a new plip, programmed it to my car and bingo! Perfect. You do not get a new key, just the 'plip' and it cost me £117 including programming. They diagnosed it free for me too! Sometimes dealers are actually ok! But not often. Good luck

 

[tidyclio]

Mine was doing this last December. Sometimes the immobiliser light would not turn off which meant the car would not start. Sometimes it would which meant it would start. In the end it refused all together. I towed it to Renault and they diagnosed it as a faulty 'plip' which tells the immobiliser via the decoder ring that the car is not being nicked. They ordered a new plip, programmed it to my car and bingo! Perfect. You do not get a new key, just the 'plip' and it cost me £117 including programming. They diagnosed it free for me too! Sometimes dealers are actually ok! But not often. Good luck

Thanks that's the kind of answer I was hoping for. Mine is now refusing to start altogether! You may not remember but was your oil can light staying on when you turned the ignition on as mine is and i've been trying to work out if that's just because it's immobilised or a seperate problem.

The auto locksmith I spoke to seemed to think if it was starting sometimes and not others it wouldn't be the key or I would have got him out to program me a new one. As it stands the car is getting towed to Renault in the morning as i'd rather spend and extra £30 getting it plugged in and diagnosed just incase it is something else. Thanks for the info.

 

[tidyclio]

Well it's official my car hates me! I had just finished booking it into Renault and arranged for someone to tow the car in the morning for £50. I was speaking to someone who used to be a Renault tech and he thought it would worth checking the TDC sensor wiring as they are bad for getting water in them.

Well I had already changed the TDC sensor so thought it wouldn't be this but none the less went out to it and basically just wiggled the wire and it has came back to life. Reallu annoying!!

So now i'm still going to drive the car down to Renault but am worried they are going to tell me since there is no fault present that they can't find anything wrong. I don't want the fault to come back again. I read somewhere that there is a modified TDC sensor loom anybody know the difference between the two?

 

[edde]

So now i'm still going to drive the car down to Renault but am worried they are going to tell me since there is no fault present that they can't find anything wrong. I don't want the fault to come back again. I read somewhere that there is a modified TDC sensor loom anybody know the difference between the two?

The new one has an extra wire on it you need the new loom and sensor £50 for the two bits.

 

[tidyclio]

Ahh right just the Renault tech guy i've been speaking to says he has the replacement loom I need and will fit it I have 2 TDC sensors but they are both 2 wire. What's the third wire for?

 

[edde]

Ahh right just the Renault tech guy i've been speaking to says he has the replacement loom I need and will fit it I have 2 TDC sensors but they are both 2 wire. What's the third wire for?

I think the redesigned sensor has a thrird output whcih is a signal protection line.

 

[16v_jon]

There is no extra wire in the new TDC sensor its still 2 wire, the new piece of loom is designed to rule out any problems with a corroded connector or snagged loom, the new TDC has 4 pickups not one as per the old one.

 

[tidyclio]

So giving that I have two TDC sensors would it be ok to just change the piece of the loom and if the sensor ever fails just swap them about or should I really get the sensor aswell as the loom?

Thanks for the info you were right all along about it not being an immobiliser problem the wiring on the sensor was about the only thing I hadn't checked.
I pulled the plastic sleeve around the wire at the connector back and tugged the wire which is when it came back to life do you think it's worth giving it a spray of WD40 incase it is corroded until I can get this loom fitted?

 

[16v_jon]

Take the sensor off the gearbox - you will see two metal prongs inside the plastic casing, i use a womens nail file to scrape the corrosion off the metal, you can use anything like that such as a small piece of sandpaper. you can either change the connector or try cleaning the corrosion off it but its hard. This type of connector is notorious for letting water in. Ive changed mine with one from a williams as it uses a better design.

 

[tidyclio]

Thanks just saw your post. I might go to the scrappy and try and cut a connector off then. Infact when I swapped my engine it came with part of the loom is the connector on the loom that goes onto the injectors do you know think that's the one I have two off?

 

[heathbrowning]

Im suffering from lack off sleep due to too many nightshifts but Im certain that if its your tdc sensor at fault, the engine turns over but just wont fire up where as if is the immobiliser/plip thats at fault then the engine wont even turn. I still think is a fault with the plip not sending the code to the immobiliser, but then again I have not slept for 2 days!

 

[tidyclio]

I know how you feel I used to do nightshift it's murder trying to get back into any pattern of normal sleep!

I was convinced it was the key aswell but when I asked the Renault tech he said right away TDC sensor wiring as if it's a common problem they have.
It was weird the first time I would try and start it with the immobiliser light on it wouldn't do anything then if I turned the key back and tried again it would turn but not fire!

I'm worried at the moment that it's a problem that's going to come back and it always seem to happen when i'm already late for work! I still don't really understand why when there is a problem with the TDC sensor why it's keeps to immobiliser light on I mean I thought maybe the engine management light or something would come on.

 

[heathbrowning]

Me again. Just replied to your private message by the way. I just fitted a tdc to my friends car as hers was turning but not starting up (hers was intermittant too) I think it cost no more than £20 for the sensor and took 5 mins to fit. Its sweet now. On the mk2 phase 2, the engine will not turn over until the immobiliser is off which was the case for mine as the plip was shot. (nothing to do with the button by the way, there is a tiny ariel inside which sends a code via radio frequency to the decoder and then to the immobiliser. The botton is for the central locking. You should be able to tell what your problem is by what its doing, or not doing as the case may be.Good luck.

 

[tidyclio]

Thanks just replied to your pm. So just to clarify when your immobiliser light was staying on the engine would not turn?Was it on solid or flashing?

Mine would turn but the light was on solid?One night not long before this the rev counter seemed to die quickly and the car stalled aswell but the engine was still going.

 

[heathbrowning]

from what i can remember it was a solid red light, not flashing. if your stays on but turns the engine then your car must be a phase 1 mk2? mine is a phase 2 mk2 and they are different!