Implications of DFT press release to HID installers

[GabrielKnight]

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps


<In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps.>


What does/ doesn't this mean if I want to buy an aftermarket HID upgrade kit? Would it invalidate my insurance?

I have a mk1, which I understand can't be fitted with HIDs to the original units. If the light housings are replaced too (with an e-marked angel lights for example), am I in the clear?

 

[GabrielKnight]

By saying 'I understand can't be fitted with HIDs to the original units' I simply meant that I was under the impression that they aren't physically compatible.

It isn't entirely clear whether insurance would be invalidated just because the DFT make an announcement based on it's 'view'. If you bothered to read it you would also notice that it is also their 'view' that it is illegal to sell 'after market HID lighting kits', but I haven't heard of any traders being arrested.

It is also still unclear to me whether a new housing would automatically qualify just because it is e-marked, or whether there is something else to look out for. Do the housings and lights have to be purchased from the same company or be part of the same range to be considered 'completely new Xenon HID headlamps'? If not, how do I tell whether my housings are considered suitable / legal?

 

[TheKing]

no even if you bought new hid headlamps you'd still need to fit the auto levelling and washers.

I just fitted a pair to my mk2ph1 with the projectors looks brilliant really improved over halogen bulbs.

 

[-Leigh-]

If you want to fit them, you must fit them in headlamps that have been approved for use with HID bulbs and you must also fit self-levelling and washer jets to them.

 

[Tom]

With respect I didn't post the answer at all.

By saying 'I understand can't be fitted with HIDs to the original units' I simply meant that I was under the impression that they aren't physically compatible.

It isn't entirely clear whether insurance would be invalidated just because the DFT make an announcement based on it's 'view'. If you bothered to read it you would also notice that it is also their 'view' that it is illegal to sell 'after market HID lighting kits', but I haven't heard of any traders being arrested.

It is also still unclear to me whether a new housing would automatically qualify just because it is e-marked, or whether there is something else to look out for. Do the housings and lights have to be purchased from the same company or be part of the same range to be considered 'completely new Xenon HID headlamps'? If not, how do I tell whether my housings are considered suitable / legal?

Phone up your insurance company and ask them if its ok to add a HID kit considered illegal by the DFT, thats the only way to get an answer to your question.

The housing is irrelevant as I'm sure you are aware, if the Hid's are illegal then they should not be fitted to any housing, e-marked or not. (If you had a mk2 you could fit them using the OEM units but you do not!)

In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

 

[White16valver]

DfT are a bunch of killjoys lol

 

[Tom]

DfT are a bunch of killjoys lol

Personally i think its actually a good thing!

Aftermarket HID kits (In particular the Halogen replacement kits) can cause accidents through blinding and distraction. Not to mention the risk of the housings melting and catching fire due to heat build up.

 

[White16valver]

DfT are a bunch of killjoys lol

Personally i think its actually a good thing!

Aftermarket HID kits (In particular the Halogen replacement kits) can cause accidents through blinding and distraction. Not to mention the risk of the housings melting and catching fire due to heat build up.[/quote]
If you drove a mk1 with 10 candlepower headlights you wouldn't :rasp: lol

 

[-Leigh-]

I regularly pass a mk2 VW Golf and a polish registered BMW which both have HID conversions in standard headlights.

They are actually as bright as a normal car on full beam. I know they are actually on dip because the first time I came across both, I was being blinded by a bright blue light, so I flashed my full beam, and they have both flashed back at me (their full beams aren't much brighter than the dipped).

They are annoying, and dangerous.

 

[White16valver]

The polish one - is it left hand drive? If so it could be because his headlights are 'the wrong way round'.

 

[-Leigh-]

The polish one - is it left hand drive? If so it could be because his headlights are 'the wrong way round'.

No idea. Do the Polish drive left hand drive cars? If so, I'd imagine it is.

The Golf is a UK car though, so no excuses.

People only buy the HID kits to look "cool". You can buy upgraded halogen bulbs to improve poor standard bulbs.

People who put the kits in cars with the projector type headlights aren't quite as bad, as the beam doesn't scatter as much, but they can still be a bit annoying on some cars.

 

[White16valver]

I buy bulbs to see, not look cool lol

But I take your point about the chav element

 

[-Leigh-]

The only reason I say it, is you always see them on "done-up" cars, but never run of the mill cars owned by people in their 40's.

 

[Tom]

Its purely for looks, not for improving vision.

 

[Weeman]

If you want xenons pay 1000 quid for them to be done properly when yiou buy the car, annoying and charva imo, my bmw has tea lights up front, but you'd have to drag me through hot coals before I put HID's on it

 

[GabrielKnight]

Its purely for looks, not for improving vision.

Do you have any evidence for this? I'd be interested and surprised if HIDs don't provide improved vision for the driver. All the evidence I've read suggests that improved output and colour temperature results in a clearer, longer view.

Their usefullness would also depend on what kind of driving you're doing. I can't see HIDs providing any real benefit on a well lit motorway, but driving around country roads in the early hours is another matter.

 

[GabrielKnight]

The only reason I say it, is you always see them on "done-up" cars, but never run of the mill cars owned by people in their 40's.

HIDs are now being installed more and more as standard in a lot of cars aimed at this agegroup, but true, not in 'run of the mill' ones yet.

 

[-Leigh-]

The only reason I say it, is you always see them on "done-up" cars, but never run of the mill cars owned by people in their 40's.

HIDs are now being installed as standard in a lot of cars aimed at this agegroup.

And have been for years and years. What's your point?

My point was it's only younger people with "done up" cars installing them afterwards.

 

[ben_p]

i am installing HIDs of my clio, i have them on my BMW, and they do improve vison.

the DFT have more to worry about on my clio than the HIDs LOL

both my cars use optical lenses in the headlight units.

i would not fit HIDs to a car that didnt have these as the light spread is shocking!

 

[Tom]

Still Not road legal nor would your insurance company cover you.

Thats the point of the thread, we know you can get away with it..

 

[Tom]

Its purely for looks, not for improving vision.

Do you have any evidence for this? I'd be interested and surprised if HIDs don't provide improved vision for the driver. All the evidence I've read suggests that improved output and colour temperature results in a clearer, longer view.

Their usefullness would also depend on what kind of driving you're doing. I can't see HIDs providing any real benefit on a well lit motorway, but driving around country roads in the early hours is another matter.

Nobodys suggesting OEM or Properly developed HID kits improve vision at night.
However in your case;

• The car was never designed to accmodate HID's
• The OEM light units will spread badly
• No MK1 clio has auto leveling
• No MK1 clio has headlamp washers

With this in mind you arent making the most of HID's Making them pointless and for looks alone.

 

[GabrielKnight]

HIDs are now being installed as standard in a lot of cars aimed at this agegroup.

And have been for years and years. What's your point?

My point was it's only younger people with "done up" cars installing them afterwards.

Well if that was your point, you're not very good at explaining yourself. You said:

<you always see them on "done-up" cars, but never run of the mill cars owned by people in their 40's>

Neither part of the statement was accurate without further clarification so I was just confirming what you had missed out.

 

[jon_r]

I think the original question from the first post has been answered so the thread can stay locked. Hopefully after tidying it if somebody else has a similar problem it will answer all the questions they have.

Jon