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Induction Noise!!



  Clio 182
This is my first Clio Sport that i have ever owned or been in....
But...
When giving it some beans, say after 4k there seems to be quite a difference in the induction noise, basically a roar..............
Now the exhaust is standard and currently running standard airbox etc etc.

So basically is it meant to sound like this????????
Thanks in advance for your help...
 
  03 RS clio 172 flameR
this is your VVT (varible valve timing). gotta love this thing, its wher it gets its 172 from, it prob goes from 110 to like 160 bhp in the space of 3900-4100rpm
creep up to 4000 in second and then stamp it, great if some cocky little scrot in a punto thinks hes got power is up ure arse.
 
  Ph 1 172
yep completly normal mate they sound really throaty and loud when you give it full whack. i was going to buy an induction kit but realised i didnt need to with the noise. hope that helps if you still aint sure post a video and i can see if it matches mine
 
  Clio 182
Cheers people, was thinking of getting an induction but might just slap a panel filter in instead
 
this is your VVT (varible valve timing). gotta love this thing, its wher it gets its 172 from, it prob goes from 110 to like 160 bhp in the space of 3900-4100rpm
creep up to 4000 in second and then stamp it, great if some c**ky little scrot in a punto thinks hes got power is up ure arse.
Id love to have had my punto up your arse :)

And the vvt has nothing to do with what you said.
 
  BMW M4; S1000 RR
this is your VVT (varible valve timing). gotta love this thing, its wher it gets its 172 from, it prob goes from 110 to like 160 bhp in the space of 3900-4100rpm
creep up to 4000 in second and then stamp it, great if some c**ky little scrot in a punto thinks hes got power is up ure arse.

lol Because he'll think his life isn't worth living?

If anything that's just going to encourage cocky little scrots
 
  03 RS clio 172 flameR
the VVT is responible as you said it would idle like shite without it dueto the profile of the cams, they r****d as the revs pick up and if the timing did not variate, you would hav a better ride in a tank, the VVT uses some kind of liquid balencing system from what i understand, so without VVT the kick at 4-5k would be imposible, not imposible, jus imposible to have in a production car coz they wouldnt sell without the VVT coz they would drive like s**t. and in responce to the fiat, i waz regarding a chav in a 1.2 with stupid body kit and the whole ripspeed stocklist attached to car! i co own the master fiat with my brother, mk1 fiat 500 with twin bandit engines in the back, all the boost in the world would not save you.
 
  BMW M135i
Its got nothing to do with the VVT, its just the cam profile coming into its ideal rev band and the VE picking up due to it.

BenR said:
172 5k kick by BenR 2006

By no means is the 5k kick the result of any mechanical/electronic chance withing the engine system, whether that be mapping paremeters or valve timing.

I think to fully understand, a base understanding of the operating system of the vvt is needed. The vvt system employed on the clio is what we refer to as cam phasing, this is where the whole camshaft (inlet or exhaust or both) is advanced/retarded. This can be in a single step as it is in the clio (single stage 16 degree advance on the inlet), or variable. The camshaft is hollow and is used as a galley to feed the front pulley (called a phaser) with oil pressure, this pressure simply acts on vanes inside to rotate it in a desired direction, and returned under mechanical pressure. The cam does not always carry oil pressure, but a vvt switch is used, and is basically a plunder activated by 12 (grounded by the ecu (a lowside switch)) which allows the passing of oil from the lifter galley to an area of the cam bearings with holes that can feed the inside of the cam, which then passes through to the nose of the cam and into the pulley (phaser).

Variable setups (like the new 197) will use the same base components as what is used today, but instead of the vvt plunger being used as a switch, the same plunger has the ability to open and bypass oil to either side of the vanes in the phaser. By using a PWM signal, you can gain full control of the phaser to advance the cam in a near infinately variable curve vs rpm vs manifold pressure vs throttle angle etc.

Honda's Vtec system is a cam 'changing' system where the actual cam profile is changed in its entirety (hence the 3 lobes per cylinder), the actual 'timing' of the primary lobe remains the same at all times. And now with I-Vtec and VVTL-i the benefits of both phasing and changing is being used at the same time to build some monster VE (volumetric efficiency) curves.

Anyway, in the clio the cam sits in its dephased state until the required parameters are met. This is above 1450rpm and 800mb manifold pressure. When it is required though, the cam is phased and the cam timing effectively advances 16 degrees, at 6800rpm it is dephased again and power drops off like a stone. No official reason, but my thoughts are that they do it so you guys shift up once there is a loss of acceleration. The reason for that is because the stock pistons just fall apart with prolongned high rpm use.

The 5k kick is the result of a few natural phenomenons within the engine. At 5000-ish rpm VE suddenly reaches a higher %'age and the resultant torque increase gives you that wahey feeling. VE increases due to the cam comming 'on'. This term has nothing to do with VVT and is quite an old term, whereby the reference is to the rpm region that particualr engine/cam combo requires to process the valve timing events efficiently.

VE refers to volumetric efficiency, or the %'age of the cylinder that you can fill with fresh charge. For a 2ltr, thats 500cc per cylinder. If you can only fill that cylinder with 430cc's at peak efficiency (normally at peak torque point) thats 86% VE. The higher the VE on any engine, the higher the torque output at that specific RPM, and all engine tuning revolves around increasing or rather sustaining a good VE for as long as possible, and upto as high an rpm as possible.

Anyway, back on track. The clio with its advanced cam timing (phased) operates with an overlap value that is larger than when it is dephased (infact it has no overlap when depahsed). This overlap is part of cam design basics, and larger overlap periods are used to help generate higher VE's via scavenging and inertia ramming. At 5000 rpm the natural effects of the port velocity and pulse tuning al reach a level where they start to actively enhance the torque production with the valve timing it is running. Put in a wilder cam and it will push the 'kick' higher up if nothing else changes, but lower rpm efficiency will loose out, and peak power will be pushed up the rpm scale, along with a higher peak bhp figure. To an extent, there will be a point where you can go wilder on the cam and just loose out everywhere as the engine system as a whole does not work with the cam profile you are running.

Not very clear sorry, basis is that the 5k kick is the result of natural phenomenons within the engine, primarily port velocities and pulse tuning harmonics.
 
  03 RS clio 172 flameR
damm thats interesting, i knew it waz somin do with some kind of liquid controller. i had th rite idea with it retarding the cams and controlling them at tic over to keep it smooth, that also explains why it has a little more vibations than most cars at tick ova maybe, so as soon as you press the pedal and it picks up it retards them for proformance as the cams in it from standard are actually unusable to effect without the vvt or alot of juddering! so jus one question, uprating the cams to cams that keep the vvt would infact be a better option than changing them to non VVT cams as the VVT alllows cams to run smoothly at tick over that would normally be mental?
 
  BMW M135i
The cams are advanced off idle not retarded, increasing the overlap. They will run permanently advanced but the idle is as rough as a badgers.

Keeping or loosing the VVT doesn't overly matter tbh, as it can be altered via a map afaik. You could run them permanently advanced/retarded or loose it completely and switch to vernier pulleys.
 


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