Is it time for a new gearbox?

[sburrell93]

Evening all, had an issue with the car that I managed to diagnose as a driveshaft (wet side), so I got another and went about replacing it tonight.

This was the old shaft

As you can see, the bearings have all fucked off somewhere inside the box.

Worse though, I found it had done this to the gearbox

So basically, what's my options here? Is that part repairable/replaceable or am I looking at a fitting a new box?

Also what kind of damage will that do and how quickly will it do it if I drive it?

Cheers everyone.

 

[bloke]

two options, swap box now or keep driving it until big bang and oil on floor.

 

[sburrell93]

Oh that bad then? I done a track night with it like that as well lol! Didn't know that's what it was at that point mind you.

 

[ed55j]

Buy a cheap gearbox to use for spares, that part thats been damaged slides out once you have removed the circlip. The sun wheel i think its called?

 

[sburrell93]

Buy a cheap gearbox to use for spares, that part thats been damaged slides out once you have removed the circlip. The sun wheel i think its called?

Wish I'd knew that earlier. I put it all back together in a rage lol just to get the car moveable. Do you know if it's the same part across all the JC5 boxes?

 

[clioben182]

Its often refered to as a diff cup. Replace that and while its out see if you can fish out the needle rollers with a magnet. You won't get all of them but some mabye then id flush the box a couple of times with fresh oil for about 500 miles. The Renault master driveshafts are the same and had the same problem, ive done loads and left the needle rollers in never had a problem.

 

[sburrell93]

@Dan@SJM @NorthloopCup (first two names that came to mind, sorry lol!) Do either of you guys know if this diff cup bit is the same across all the gearboxes or will I need one specific to a ph1?

 

[sburrell93]

So I've managed to find out that the 182 is different as it bolts in, instead of being held by a circlip. Does anyone know if the actual cup part of it is any different though, or is it just how it's held in that changes between the different gearboxes?

From what I've read it's a bolted plate that sits in front of the cup to hold it in place on the 182, so I'm thinking it might just be the same setup behind that? Minus the diff circlip.

I can get hold of a 182 box tonight which would be ideal, but I just don't know if that part will fit my box.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Are you wanting to fit the 182 diff into your gearbox then? No speedo drive gear on the 182 diff for a start and you can't just fit the part that bolts in either unless you drill and tap your original diff.
It's not something I'd do tbh. Your better off getting the renfort plate off eBay and fitting that. You'll have to drill and tap your original diff though.


Edit, just read the rest of the thread!!! Those needle rollers will be everywhere mate. That needs opening up and cleaning and inspecting. Those needle rollers will create untold amounts of damage if you let them run around in the box mate.

 

[sburrell93]

Are you wanting to fit the 182 diff into your gearbox then? No speedo drive gear on the 182 diff for a start and you can't just fit the part that bolts in either unless you drill and tap your original diff.
It's not something I'd do tbh. Your better off getting the renfort plate off eBay and fitting that. You'll have to drill and tap your original diff though.

I'm wanting to fit a new one of those tripod cup bits that the n/s shaft goes into as mine is worn. Or is this not even possible? Its just that one bit I was looking at changing.

Edit: just read your edit lol. They were like that for a full 2 hour track session... I'm not sure if I got lucky or they've all went somewhere and got stuck

I wonder if they're even in there to start with tbh. I got the inner CV boot replaced and not long after that the car started vibrating on acceleration. Had a track night a few days later so just went with it and decided to work out what the issue was after, and that's when I've found this. The fact it survived a beating on track makes me wonder if the driveshaft was put back in without those needle rollers even being there and the garage just washed their hands of it.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I'm wanting to fit a new one of those tripod cup bits that the n/s shaft goes into as mine is worn. Or is this not even possible? Its just that one bit I was looking at changing.

Edit: just read your edit lol. They were like that for a full 2 hour track session... I'm not sure if I got lucky or they've all went somewhere and got stuck

How many metal filings came out when you dropped the oil mate? I imagine they've all been quite well chewed up by now tbh so any damage is already done. Fit the other diff cup and run it mate. It's not ideal, but if the box is now fucked it'll show itself reasonably quick. If your wanting to bolt the cup in though, you will need to drill and tap your diff, as the bolt in plate acts like the circlip does. It's just more reliable. Use loctite on the bolts as well because if they come out and find their way in the box it'll properly f**k it and leave nothing salvageable. Trust me, I've seen a few that have done this.

 

[sburrell93]

How many metal filings came out when you dropped the oil mate? I imagine they've all been quite well chewed up by now tbh so any damage is already done. Fit the other diff cup and run it mate. It's not ideal, but if the box is now fucked it'll show itself reasonably quick. If your wanting to bolt the cup in though, you will need to drill and tap your diff, as the bolt in plate acts like the circlip does. It's just more reliable. Use loctite on the bolts as well because if they come out and find their way in the box it'll properly f**k it and leave nothing salvageable. Trust me, I've seen a few that have done this.

Pretty much none. Oil was changed when the garage replaced the CV boot though, about 4 weeks ago. It's seen about 200-300 miles since then. I did notice some black streaking left in the basin once I put the oil back in the box but there was no proper metal filings really noticeable.

I take it the bolting plate isn't removable from the diff cup on a 182? I.e. It's a completely different part to the one on mine? I thought it was maybe just a plate that held it in place in a 182 box and if I removed that the diff cup part might be the same. I'm wanting the car for Saturday ideally, so if fitting a 182 one would involve drilling and tapping the diff I'd probably be just as well to fit another gearbox. Only reason for using the 182 diff cup was I was getting the box for free lol.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Pretty much none. Oil was changed when the garage replaced the CV boot though, about 4 weeks ago. It's seen about 200-300 miles since then. I did notice some black streaking left in the basin once I put the oil back in the box but there was no proper metal filings really noticeable.

I take it the bolting plate isn't removable from the diff cup on a 182? I.e. It's a completely different part to the one on mine? I thought it was maybe just a plate that held it in place in a 182 box and if I removed that the diff cup part might be the same. I'm wanting the car for Saturday ideally, so if fitting a 182 one would involve drilling and tapping the diff I'd probably be just as well to fit another gearbox. Only reason for using the 182 diff cup was I was getting the box for free lol.

The majority of the rollers will be inside somewhere then probably clinging to the magnet inside.

The cup is essentially the same mate, it's the plate and casing of the diff that's not, due to having 4 holes drilled and tapped in it to hold the plate secure. You should be fine to try it because your box may well be scrap now anyway with those needle rollers in there.
I thought your diff circlip was knackered and you were wanting to upgrade it for some reason. Lol

 

[sburrell93]

The majority of the rollers will be inside somewhere then probably clinging to the magnet inside.

The cup is essentially the same mate, it's the plate and casing of the diff that's not, due to having 4 holes drilled and tapped in it to hold the plate secure. You should be fine to try it because your box may well be scrap now anyway with those needle rollers in there.
I thought your diff circlip was knackered and you were wanting to upgrade it for some reason. Lol

Lol nah, circlip is still in place. For now...

Might just try it then with the 182 cup. It won't be seeing trackdays like this anyway, but I'm going up the north of Scotland for a week on Saturday and want to take the car and enjoy some of the roads up there! Am I right in saying then it should go into my box and hold in place with the circlip, but will just have some empty holes in it?

Cheers for the help mate.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Lol nah, circlip is still in place. For now...

Might just try it then with the 182 cup. It won't be seeing trackdays like this anyway, but I'm going up the north of Scotland for a week on Saturday and want to take the car and enjoy some of the roads up there! Am I right in saying then it should go into my box and hold in place with the circlip, but will just have some empty holes in it?

Cheers for the help mate.

Yeah it should do mate. The holes are in diff itself so those holes won't be there anyway.

 

[sburrell93]

So, to put a bit of a conclusion on this for now, picked up a cheap box to use the diff cup from but ended up just replacing the whole gearbox with another ph1 one.

Was finished about half 11 on Friday there, night before I went on holiday lol so when I get back home I'll probably pull my old box apart and see what damage (if any) has been done with these needle rollers.

Cheers @NorthloopCup for your input!