Is there really anything in it?

[tameracingdriver]

I've always been reading that driving the Clio HARD all of the time somehow gives it more power.

But why? How? What proof is there?

By my reckoning I should be on my way to a quick'un because its rare that I dont give it some pasty, but as of now (11k miles) I dont really think I can say it feels any quicker than it ever did?

 

[JayR]

Lol, im with you mate, iv heard they get god at 20k, its also been said at 30k.

Also heard people on here saying if they are ragged from birth, it opens them up but then they dont last as long without probs. :s

Confusing stuff.....

 

[Dash]

I recall my 172 losened up around 15k and it certainly felt nippier, unfortunately the rest of the car did too.

 

[Tom Rigbanks]

As i said in another post, the power an specific engine produces is down to the closeness the metal components have to the original spec set by the manufacturters, ie how good the tolerances are. Blueprinting is a way of making the components as close to this spec as possible. Most race engines are therefore blueprinted.

Its interesting that Renault provide little guide as to how to run an engine in, yet manufacturers like Subaru have rigorous running in procedures. On the imprezas there is a 1000 mile running in period of no engine revs over 4000 followed by a service and check up to ensure the car is in good condition. BMW also recommend a running in period of lower revs and less strain on the engine, and you could argue that both these manufacturers produce fine engines and know a thing or two about performance cars.

People forget the running in period isnt just for the engine. You also need to run in the gearbox, tyres, brakes etc.

The fact is there is no evidence that thrashing a car makes it faster, beyond anecdote and subjective self opinion. I think what it boils down to is a belief system whereby people like to thrash their cars, and justify the extra wear they place on the car by convincing themselves that thrashing will 'give them a quick one'.

Its also worth noting that there is a difference between thrashing an engine and thrashing the suspension. Im all for thrashing the suspension and brakes on a track. It tends to be cheap and easily replaced. Doing it can also make you very quick. Changing gear 1000 revs early and saving the engine, in reality wont slow your lap times a great deal, but can save you alot of wear and tear. The engines get enough abuse on track at any rate with all the hard fast cornering starving the top ends of oil, so all the respite you can give them will only be a good thing. In any case the power curves of most road cars drop off at top end so there really is no extra to be gained from bouncing off the limiter.

As an interesting point to finish on, it is estimeted (dont ask me who said this) that 1 miles of track driving is equivalent to 15 miles of fast road driving, in terms of stress and waer on the car. Interesting thought hey?

 

[tameracingdriver]

Good post Tom, interesting to read.

I'm generally with you on changing up early, especially once you get out of second there is little to be gained by going much past 6500 rpm IMO, and the only reason to rev it hard in the lesser gears is so it drops into the 5000 + rev range in the next gear.

I have no problem with thrashing my car once its warmed up. The way i look at it is these cars are designed to be used in the upper rev ranges.

However, despite the fact i almost invariably drive "enthusiastically", I have not noticed any difference whatsoever.

Same with my last new car, a Fabia vRS. On another forum I used to frequent they told me that I would notice similar big changes from new by the time I was getting up in the miles. However, I did not notice that big a change. They also used to say the car was massively quicker after service. Again, I found that to be false.

So I guess inadvertently what i am trying to say is, there does seem to be an awful lot of crap talked on car forums at times, doesnt there?

 

[tameracingdriver]

Just out of interest tom, if you were driving quick, what point would you change up in 1st and 2nd?

 

[sh33n]

So I guess inadvertently what i am trying to say is, there does seem to be an awful lot of crap talked on car forums at times, doesnt there?

Here, here! :approve:

When I've had my car serviced, it never feels any different. Maybe if I was to wait say 18k when it's running s**t, and then service it I would notice it.

I do think my car is now nicely run in, I got it at 14k, now on 38k, altough I haven't noticed a change, I would reckon the engine does feel looser and more free if that makes sense.

My mate has a Cup on 50k, and although there doesn't seem to be a difference in speed, his engine feels that bit looser.

 

[Tom Rigbanks]

On the road the car generally never goes above 5500 to 6000 revs.

 

[Tyson-182]

...We all know that the 'power curve' drops off at 6.5k (ish), but if you change gear closer to 7k (ish) without bouncing off the limiter, that will drop you more nicely in the sweet spot in 2nd... Just my opinion, but i think it makes more sense changing at 7k (ish) rather than 6.5k (ish).

Tyson.

 

[jayxx83]

Just depends on how you thrash your car I guess.

 

[Inferno]

On track it is worth holding on to a gear longer as it is ultimately quicker, but this is dependant on circumstances.

There was an article about a pug 205 in a racing mag once, and in that the owner wanted feedback about the set up of his car and and possible improvements that could be made, he defied the tester (an experienced saloon car racer) to drive the car faster round the track. GPS was used to log corner speeds and lap times.

Ultimately the tester was fractionally slower due to having less confidence in the car's set up, however he did make up over a second a lap on the owner by holding 4th on the main straight rather than changing up to 5th. I think this gave him a 5mph advantage on the straight.

On the road I don't usually push mine past 6500k in 3rd or 4th, can't see any advantage in doing so.

I suppose the only place to get a difinitive answer is on the quarter mile.

 

[tameracingdriver]

I agree with what you are saying that *ultimately* the car will be faster by hanging on, because despite the power starting to tail off, by changing up there is less torque at the wheels anyway because you are in a higher gear ratio.

A lot of people when i drove the DERV skoda were convinced that the fastest way to drive it was to change gear at 3500 revs. I told them they were wrong, but not many people seemed to get it - the fact was, changing up near the redline was STILL the fastest way even if it didnt feel the best.

How fast something feels and how fast something is, is not always the same thing.

Neverthless on public roads i always goes with what feels best, and to me, that is NOT bouncing off the rev limiter.

 

[ChrisE]

How fast something feels and how fast something is, is not always the same thing.

I totally agree with that! Its quite funny how you may think a car is faster than the other just because it has a louder exhaust, but line them up and there aint guna be much difference!!

 

[Jones]

mine feels exactly the same and i got it on 9k now at 30k