Ledas, overkill for my needs?

[Dan_cup]

what are peoples opinions on these cilovers? ive heard a fair bit about them but i cant help but think they r a waste for my requirements.

i do about 300 mile a week and i would say 2 - 3 track days a year.

as u may be aware there are some nice ones for sale but im not sure whether to just keep some cash and get h&rs or maybe FK's.

ta

 

[fUbAr]

save the cash.

never understood coilovers really, some decent springs and shocks do the same job!

coilovers were first designed as a space saving excercise iirc?

 

[Donz144]

do you enjoy cornering hard, going fast, and having the luxury of being able to adjust things to the exact setting you require to get the most out of the car that you love so much?

Coilovers are great...LEDAs are something else entirely.

 

[Middo]

save the cash.

never understood coilovers really, some decent springs and shocks do the same job!

coilovers were first designed as a space saving excercise iirc?

u see i think most people would disagree with that who've had both, i know for one ali finds his coilovers loads better than the springs, and i know when i had a suspension kit on my old 1.2, and then put fks on it the difference was absolutly astonishing, handled a million times better. Heard similar stories from other people who've gone from kits to coilovers. If you just wnat your car to be low i guess a suspension kit will do the job, but as your doing track days you'll really notice the difference on coilovers. As for ledas, if your on about chris ks, i would if i had the money just because they're so much of a bargain. At full price i wouldnt

 

[Dan_cup]

do you enjoy cornering hard, going fast, and having the luxury of being able to adjust things to the exact setting you require to get the most out of the car that you love so much?.

in a word yes,

although ive never had the luxury of adjustable stuff

 

[edde]

Its like saying do you realy need Free range eggs vs battery you can argubale tell the difference and there nice and can afford them I'd go for them.

IMo if your going to spend on suspension do it right spedn the proper money on them.

There a set cheap Chris K has for sale at the moment I'd buy them in an instent if I wasn't sure about paying for Ledas as there a bargin realy not much more than Fk's and there the best.

 

[fUbAr]

u see i think most people would disagree with that who've had both, i know for one ali finds his coilovers loads better than the springs, and i know when i had a suspension kit on my old 1.2, and then put fks on it the difference was absolutly astonishing, handled a million times better. Heard similar stories from other people who've gone from kits to coilovers. If you just wnat your car to be low i guess a suspension kit will do the job, but as your doing track days you'll really notice the difference on coilovers. As for ledas, if your on about chris ks, i would if i had the money just because they're so much of a bargain. At full price i wouldnt

i do trackdays and a decent spring/shock setup does just fine. Most people who buy coilovers do so because of the adjustability... then set them up and never adjust them.

 

[Donz144]

u see i think most people would disagree with that who've had both, i know for one ali finds his coilovers loads better than the springs, and i know when i had a suspension kit on my old 1.2, and then put fks on it the difference was absolutly astonishing, handled a million times better. Heard similar stories from other people who've gone from kits to coilovers. If you just wnat your car to be low i guess a suspension kit will do the job, but as your doing track days you'll really notice the difference on coilovers. As for ledas, if your on about chris ks, i would if i had the money just because they're so much of a bargain. At full price i wouldnt

i do trackdays and a decent spring/shock setup does just fine. Most people who buy coilovers do so because of the adjustability... then set them up and never adjust them.

when away (France) on the open road I adjust mine daily...seriously. All you have to do is turn a know..one way makes them softer the other ways makes them harder!! Its so easy, and so fun!!!

 

[Fred@BTM]

if you're gonna spend money, spend it on German TUV approved stuff with millions of pounds of research behind it, not some rubbish built by a bunch of blokes in Essex

 

[Big Iain]

H&R's? I really need to fit mine

 

[Dan_cup]

if you're gonna spend money, spend it on German TUV approved stuff with millions of pounds of research behind it, not some rubbish built by a bunch of blokes in Essex

so given the chioce you would go h&r over leda even if the ledas were same price as h&r's new. i presumes h&rs are about 750 new?

 

[haitch]

if you are looking at ChrisK Ledas over some H&R its a no brainer, Ledas everytime. but first consider your usage, there are other cheaper alternatives if you dont need all that adjustment, whats the point? as Fubar says many buy them & dont use them. that deal aside, KW v2 for me, had them on the rs, excellent. will prob be getting a set for the mk1 next year..

 

[Dan_cup]

the KW are still bout 6-700 arent they?

 

[Fred@BTM]

i only buy German, best suspension in the world

 

[eo52vug]

H&Rs all the way !

 

[Dan_cup]

H&Rs all the way !

do u get much body roll with them? one thing that annoys me bout cup,

how low do these adjust to?

 

[cK]

I had fk coilovers on my old clio 172 and they were absolutely pants. Without sounding biased as i'm trying to sell them, these ledas are in a completely different league.

The ride on the fk's were hard as hell even if I set it up to the supple dampening setting.

I just wish I could keep them but money won't allow!

I've seen Donz144 car on ledas and his handled superbly, this was before I got mine.

If I was in the same situation I would completely rule out any cheaper budget coilovers simply because you will kick yourself for not spending that extra £200-250. As said above you can really notice a difference between a set of good and bad coilovers.

 

[haitch]

ya £700ish, like ive said what will you use them for? whats your budget? i paid £500 for my used KW v2's. suspension doesnt need to be ultra low for the best handling on the road, a lot of people having it sitting on the bump stops which is totally usless.

 

[cK]

 

[Dan_cup]

ya £700ish, like ive said what will you use them for? whats your budget? i paid £500 for my used KW v2's. suspension doesnt need to be ultra low for the best handling on the road, a lot of people having it sitting on the bump stops which is totally usless.

yea totally agree with what your saying, i basically want less body roll and it a bit lower.

as for what am i using them for, basically driving along a/b roads 300 mile or so a week and then hopefully start getting to some trackdays.

my budget stretches to h&rs but with the chris's ledas being the price they are they are within range.

just wanted peoples opinions on whether they are the way to go, (reliable hard durabilty etc)

until today i never relised leda was a small cpmpany, thought it was like eibach etc

 

[cK]

Fred can't stand leda for some reason but most people on here will tell you how good they are.

 

[Dan_cup]

Fred can't stand leda for some reason but most people on here will tell you how good they are.

haha does seem to be the only one with a disliking to them!!

 

[stan*]

Probs cos they wont give him a tidy trade discount

 

[Fred@BTM]

no because the build quality Vs price is shocking

and the rear spring setup on the 172/182 is crap, oh and they creak too (the rear springs)

 

[BenR]

fred just cant stand the fact that they work better.

 

[Fred@BTM]

they're rubbish!

 

[BenR]

"There is a point, however, where bias and being opinionated leads to error and
untruth, because one is so adamant to advance one's own viewpoint that all the
other facts get skewed to support that."

When you can drive faster, crash harder and out drivvel me across a table, i will agree

 

[Dan_cup]

"There is a point, however, where bias and being opinionated leads to error and
untruth, because one is so adamant to advance one's own viewpoint that all the
other facts get skewed to support that."

When you can drive faster, crash harder and out drivvel me across a table, i will agree

lol so overall you would say they are a decent buy, for £700 and 3k miles old anyway!

 

[Paul J]

Id agree with Fred, Leda are certainly not top manufactures of suspension.

 

[Fred@BTM]

wooo!! another man with some sense!!

 

[stan*]

why not give some reasons? lol

 

[Paul J]

They have an issue with build quality and leaks are widley reported, tho in comparison with the stock Renault shocks i spose thats acceptable lol

I certainly know in the Ford scene they are not well regarded and thats mainly from comp use where Blistiens are favoured depending on budget. 2.5inch springs dont allow easy comparison tho.

Above this would be proflex, Ohlin etc but not likely relevant for this guy.

 

[BenR]

The real problem is subjective and ill informed opinions.

They arent made out of the best materials, they dont emply tig welds, and other show factors, simply because they dont have to.

One thing that people forget to even consider is damping which is the primarly concern of a damper. Monotube dampers use shim valving, which is a perfectly good valve...........across a VERY narrow range. Good setup for the road WILL be s**t for the track, period.......there just isnt enough scope for adjustment in a shim valve, not to mention you cannot keep the damping/rebound ratio even, it will alter with adjustment. So if you can afford to revalve for every occation they they will be your choice, as they are in competition.

BUt ledas, for the majority of road use and track use, they conquer all IMO. The adjustment is superb and the quality of control is even better, which is all i care about. At £50 a pop for a rebuild, its pence. Main problem is, public expect too much for too little now that shite £300 full suspension kits have been common place in all the jazz mags.........shock horror at £1300 a set suspension setups. racing setups cost more than that each corner, and yet still they are compared.

 

[edde]

At £50 a pop for a rebuild, its pence. Main problem is, public expect too much for too little now that s**te £300 full suspension kits have been common place in all the jazz mags.........shock horror at £1300 a set suspension setups. racing setups cost more than that each corner, and yet still they are compared.

Ben I take it thats £50 a corner?
Whats woudl that include full revalve to whatever spec you want or just revalve to a normla road etc standard?

Could they re-valve normal shocks?

 

[BenR]

£50 a corner yes.
They can valve to whatever you want from new or during the rebuild. But with the 28 point adjustment on their base units (twin remote units can have 28x28x28), valving for most people isnt an issue as you can play with over 100lb/" spring rate change before you really have to worry about damping rates.

They cant revalve normal shocks.

But their full comp units do use monotube and shim valves.

 

[edde]

£50 a corner yes.
They can valve to whatever you want from new or during the rebuild. But with the 28 point adjustment on their base units (twin remote units can have 28x28x28), valving for most people isnt an issue as you can play with over 100lb/" spring rate change before you really have to worry about damping rates.

But their full comp units do use monotube and shim valves.

Would you have to know what they want regards damping then or could you just tell them its xx car with xxx rate springs running xx camber etc and used on roads and they'd work out the right spec?

So there competitive stuff uses both monotube and shim valves at the same time?

 

[BenR]

All monotubes use shim valves.

With suspension, nobody, anywhere, not even Adrian Newey could set it up spot on for you if you only allow them to base their educated guesstimates on simple information you give them.

Their ability to correctly supply a valved damper depends on how much info you give them. Everything from geometry, vehicle weight and weight splits, polar moments, heat spread across tyre carcass during different loadings, geometry change in roll, downforce etc etc.

And that my friend is precisely why an accurate wide ranging adjustment span is so beneficial to road users who visit the track. You can adjust things to your own preference, and a change in damper valving isnt really needed, rather just playing with spring rates and adjusting the dampers via the knobs.

 

[edde]

Their ability to correctly supply a valved damper depends on how much info you give them. Everything from geometry, vehicle weight and weight splits, polar moments, heat spread across tyre carcass during different loadings, geometry change in roll, downforce etc etc.

And that my friend is precisely why an accurate wide ranging adjustment span is so beneficial to road users who visit the track. You can adjust things to your own preference, and a change in damper valving isnt really needed, rather just playing with spring rates and adjusting the dampers via the knobs.

How many ways (or should that be types) or adjustmant do you think that a good reasonable setup should have then?

Don't the bottom spec Leda stuff come with fixed rates?

I take it then a perfect setup (abeitly it depneds what you like) when done would fix you to a certain weight car and tyres of only one compound? As the more tyres wear the more properties change in them?

Would most people be able to adjust adjustable dampers then to make them better do you imgaine or would few be able to tell the real difference between one clik either way on a setting?

Also one other thing there laod of other cars have adjutable top mounts would the Clio benefit from them? I just wished I could get some more feeling back in the Clio like my Escort used to (Ok it has skinny tyres and the bodysheell bent like a piece of paper which surly affected it) you could realy feel what the car what doing and no Clios has ever felt like that and I remmber someone saying king pin angle affected this so surly by adjusting that you could get some more feeling back to the stearing?

 

[White16valver]

Also one other thing there laod of other cars have adjutable top mounts would the Clio benefit from them? I just wished I could get some more feeling back in the Clio like my Escort used to (Ok it has skinny tyres and the bodysheell bent like a piece of paper which surly affected it) you could realy feel what the car what doing and no Clios has ever felt like that and I remmber someone saying king pin angle affected this so surly by adjusting that you could get some more feeling back to the stearing?

edde, have you thought about changing the bushes to the poly ones, or if you wanted ultimate feel then would full on rose-jointing or whatever it's called not be beneficial?

Basically taking all the 'slack' out the system?

Or you could upgrade the whole setup to a 172 Cup version?

I don't know how your escort drove (I'm guessing mk1 or mk2?) but I don't think any modern car is going to come close to the feel of older good cars!

 

[BenR]

What you have to remember edde, is that suspension is a near perfect science, ruined by the fact that you then have to run it in a chaotic environment.

You could setup a car perfectly, then run it the next day and it will be s**t. Factors such as track temp and the amount of oils/grease that come to the surface with dew and frost etc make all the difference. Constantly changing factors with vehicle weight changing as you do, tyre compound and temp changing as they wear.........there is no one answer to all your questions. This is why a good driver makes the best of what he has, and they make up the difference, otherwise you could stick any moron in a race car and tell them to turn at certain points and apply certain throttle amounts.

Good adj suspension should come with?..........enough to make a difference you can work with.

Ledas dont come with fixed rates.

Most people wont be able to tell the diff between 5 clicks yet alone one click.

And adj top mounts on a clio, your not just changing KPI or SAI with them, you affect castor, camber, roll camber change etc.

Suspension is complex, i dont know the half of it, i do the best i can with what i know. But those who over simplify with certain 'this and thats' cause more harm than benefit.......and most just strike it lucky that stock cars are setup so conservatively from the factory that any adjustment, even to lower to the bump stops and adversely affect roll centres and bump steer, tend to 'work' or go faster because they are just so low and hard that they dont roll at all.