Loop the loop rolling road graph...

[K-Tec Racing]

OMG, news flash. Rumour on Cliopsort gets blown out of proportion and misinterpreted shocker. Do you guys really have nothing better to do than stir. Maybe we should have a new "troll" section, it would certainly be popular.

TTFN

David.

 

[Greeny.]

Heard Superchips rollers are fubared, although im not sure many of us Clio head would use them anyway. The other company that springs to mind is Jamsport, their rollers seem to read to high, a certain ITB'd mag featured Clio that used to be on here springs to mind.

 

[gti6steve]

Selling my exhausts is "professional integrity"???

Very true Fred

 

[K-Tec Racing]

Fred, if you believe that to be the case then that is up to you, I am sure JP will be happy to confirm they came to us as they were not happy with your distribution.

Trust me, I can teach you a few things about PI.

David.

 

[Greeny.]

Well this thread isn't going to last long..

 

[Will.]

OMG, news flash. Rumour on Cliopsort gets blown out of proportion and misinterpreted shocker. Do you guys really have nothing better to do than stir. Maybe we should have a new "troll" section, it would certainly be popular.

TTFN

David.

I would like this if it was a facebook status.

 

[Fred@BTM]

A person with "professional integrity" would know that it was my product and wouldn't have taken it on

JP came to you because they've gotten greedy, good luck selling them!

 

[K-Tec Racing]

A person with "profesional integrity" would know that it was my product and wouldn't have taken it on

JP came to you because they've gotten greedy, good luck selling them!

That not what JP told us and thanks, they are moving quite well.

 

[Russ_16v]

OMG, news flash. Rumour on Cliopsort gets blown out of proportion and misinterpreted shocker. Do you guys really have nothing better to do than stir. Maybe we should have a new "troll" section, it would certainly be popular.

TTFN

David.

With the greatest of respect, 'stirring and trolling' will always happen on a forum - be it about anything - and plenty of other companies get it - look at NWP, of course the opinions of customers that have had work done by companies will always be worth more than 'heresay', as these people live with the work done, be it good or bad.

A person with "profesional integrity" would know that it was my product and wouldn't have taken it on

JP came to you because they've gotten greedy, good luck selling them!

I am a little confused why Ktec have taken the exhausts on from JP, it has been forum knowledge for years fred was behind the Yozza design, JP should have talked to Fred first, but then again im sure Ktec would be reacting the same if another company started seilling the KTR exhausts

 

[K-Tec Racing]

Yes in all fairness we would react the same way. We were also told by JP that they had spoken to Fred first as I had asked them to do. It appears this may not have been the case but was out of our control.

 

[Fred@BTM]

correct they didn't contact me, guess they missed the lesson on "professional integrity"

 

[Russ_16v]

Yes in all fairness we would react the same way. We were also told by JP that they had spoken to Fred first as I had asked them to do. It appears this may not have been the case but was out of our control.

Genuine question, would it have been a good idea to contact Fred directly?

I mean flipping it round the other way and going with my previous statement, if another company had been offered KTR exhausts due to KTec not wanting/supply issue - whatever reason - that company, im sure would have found it very odd - as a (small) business owner myself, with a business head on (ie suspicious b*****d) id think something was amiss there, due to KTR exhausts being known solely to Ktec, as the Yozza is to Fred, if I was offered the franchise of one, id fish it out directly, though I appreciate you asked JP to do it, iv found you can't trust some people

 

[Greeny.]

Genuine question, would it have been a good idea to contact Fred directly?

I think you could probably guess Fred reaction so sort of pointless.

"Hi can we take your business"

"No"

"Ok, bye"

 

[Russ_16v]

I think you could probably guess Fred reaction so sort of pointless.

"Hi can we take your business"

"No"

"Ok, bye"

Im sure they would have liked a company to pick up the phone to them if someone else had been offered the KTR exhaust sytems, or if catcams had offered the 438's to someone else, no?

 

[Dunx90]

I know this is none of our business but, Ye ktec should of phoned Fred directly to try work something out and ye JP have got greedy and wanted another supplier but now i dont see ktec dropping out of this deal so in my eyes i can only see fair that Fred gets a % for each sold?

 

[JamesS]

A person with "professional integrity" would know that it was my product and wouldn't have taken it on

JP came to you because they've gotten greedy, good luck selling them!

I'm interested, as I'm sure others are, as to how you define your product. By saying that, you're implying you owned the complete rights to those exhausts, and one would have assumed that you had a production agreement with JP exhausts so that they could produce these only for you (let's be honest, a very basic bit of business). Therefore, if JP had wanted to produce the exhaust for anyone else, they wouldn't have been able to, unless they'd obtained your permission in writing.

Alternatively, you didn't/don't actually own the rights to your exhaust, but instead just sold JP exhausts under the "Yozza" brand, and you had some sort of a hand in the design.

If it is the first, then I doubt this discussion would be taking place instead on a Clio forum / in public, as it most probably would have been sorted out by lawyers, and either JP would not be allowed to sell to anyone else, or they would be paying you a royalty for every one sold.

If it is the second, then actually it wasn't your product, and you've just learned a valuable lesson in business, so quit whinging about it!

 

[Fred@BTM]

I'm interested, as I'm sure others are, as to how you define your product. By saying that, you're implying you owned the complete rights to those exhausts, and one would have assumed that you had a production agreement with JP exhausts so that they could produce these only for you (let's be honest, a very basic bit of business). Therefore, if JP had wanted to produce the exhaust for anyone else, they wouldn't have been able to, unless they'd obtained your permission in writing.

You are correct, JP don't see if that way though!

Alternatively, you didn't/don't actually own the rights to your exhaust, but instead just sold JP exhausts under the "Yozza" brand, and you had some sort of a hand in the design.

If that was the case then JP would've sold direct to the public and other trade, yet they sent all enquiries to us for 7 years!

If it is the first, then I doubt this discussion would be taking place instead on a Clio forum / in public, as it most probably would have been sorted out by lawyers, and either JP would not be allowed to sell to anyone else, or they would be paying you a royalty for every one sold.

throwing £10K at lawyers isn't really going to happen, the damage is done!

If it is the second, then actually it wasn't your product, and you've just learned a valuable lesson in business, so quit whinging about it!

Its our product as we paid for the prototypes, the jigs everything, JP say we never did which is interesting!

The problem is JP have a new sales guy who has been trying to get me to order more and more, but thats not possible when the market is dead! The original Production manager left in 2010, this would never of happened if he was still there. Who's going to spend £500 on an exhaust for a car worth £2K? So JP HAVE got greedy and have gone to k-tec, and in turn screwed up a 7 year relationship

Yozzasport are probably going to pursue it legally, i'm not interested though, i'd rather spend my money on making a better product

 

[JamesS]

I'm interested, as I'm sure others are, as to how you define your product. By saying that, you're implying you owned the complete rights to those exhausts, and one would have assumed that you had a production agreement with JP exhausts so that they could produce these only for you (let's be honest, a very basic bit of business). Therefore, if JP had wanted to produce the exhaust for anyone else, they wouldn't have been able to, unless they'd obtained your permission in writing.

You are correct, JP don't see if that way though!

Alternatively, you didn't/don't actually own the rights to your exhaust, but instead just sold JP exhausts under the "Yozza" brand, and you had some sort of a hand in the design.

If that was the case then JP would've sold direct to the public and other trade, yet they sent all enquiries to us

If it is the first, then I doubt this discussion would be taking place instead on a Clio forum / in public, as it most probably would have been sorted out by lawyers, and either JP would not be allowed to sell to anyone else, or they would be paying you a royalty for every one sold.

throwing £10K at lawyers isn't really going to happen, the damage is done!

If it is the second, then actually it wasn't your product, and you've just learned a valuable lesson in business, so quit whinging about it!

Its our product as we paid for the prototypes, the jigs everything, JP say we never did which is interesting!

The problem is JP have a new sales guy who has been trying to get me to order more and more, but thats not possible when the market is dead! The original Production manager left in 2010, this would never of happened if he was still there. Who's going to spend £500 on an exhaust for a car worth £2K? So JP HAVE got greedy and have gone to k-tec, and in turn screwed up a 7 year relationship

Yozzasport are probably going to pursue it legally, i'm not interested though, i'd rather spend my money on making a better product

Simple thing then is to post up a copy of the agreement between yourselves and JP, and this discussion ends (or just the relevant statements in the agreement with the other bits blanked out, plus the final page showing the signatures of the two companies' representatives).

I don't understand what the departure of the production manager has to do with it though. It's not like he walked off with the agreement, and even if he did it wouldn't matter as you have a copy?

Let's be honest, you're not the only person having higher MOQs pushed onto them. The chances are JP are also feeling the effect of the economy at the moment and are seeing higher MOQs and longer lead times, which in turn makes business more difficult where there is little or no forecasting and guaranteed order commitment. At the moment that's happening in all forms of business and people are having to find ways to deal with it. If the product is too expensive, then there's no market for it, or at best a very limited one (as you have said about the JP exhausts), but in this instance JP appear to have found somewhere where they can sell the number required.

From what you've said, I hope your new exhaust comes in well under £500 else it doesn't sound like there's a market to support it.

 

[Fred@BTM]

yeah you've got it in one! shame it happened the way it did, but that's business!

The production manager was a good bloke with a good way of doing things, the new guy just wants to make money which isn't my kind of person at all (and we saw mistakes on a regualr basis), but as you say that's business and life goes on, shame about the sour grapes, but its understandable after 7 years

I probably pissed them off by rejecting a few exhausts as they weren't made to my specs (wrong welding, missed bits etc)

 

[Silent_Scone]

teaching PI LOL.

Seriously that is all

 

[Tom]

Airing your laundry in public is unprofessional. If you want to have a chat phone each other up. Don't do it on here. Ok?