Opinion on an install...

[theICEman]

OK, Ive been scheming and I think Ive just about figured out the spec of my next install... will need to save up quite a bit for this one I suspect! Im aiming for an all-round loud SQ type set-up, so bearing this in mind any advice offered (probably mainly from EvilICE!) would be much appreciated.

Headunit: JVC KD-SH99R (which I plan to use with the amp defeat function for pure sound into the RCAs)

Amps:

Cadence Ultradrive Z777GD 1600W mono sub amp

Ground Zero Nuclear GZNA2600X amp

Ground Zero Hydrogen GZHA4125 4Ch amp

Mission Freeway 2Ch amp

Speakers: Pair Kicker Comp VR 6.5" midbass woofers in custom boxed builds on underside of parcel shelf running off 2 channels of GZHA4125

Pair of 5.25" Infinity Perfect components in rear decks (wtih Dynamat inside door builds) running off Mission amp

Pair of 6.5" Infinity Perfect components in front doors (again Dynamat inside custom door builds) running off remaining 2 channels of GZHA4125

Subwoofers: 2x10" Cadence Ultradrive UD10-4 (sealed enclosure) running off GZ Nuclear amp

1x15" Ground Zero GZUW15 Uranium series (ported enclosure) running off Z777GD amp

All running on 2 Yellow Tops with a split charge relay and 3 1 Farad caps (1 for each amp apart from the Mission), and with Oxygen wiring throughout.

Any opinions?

Cheers.

 

[Evil ICE]

Hi mate

Unfortunately i dont know an awful lot about Mission or Cadence stuff but the Ground Zero amps are certainly very powerful and are quite well priced.

As a sidenote i would say that running 10" and 15" subs in the same install is normally considered a bad idea. If you are careful with which fequencies you are sending to each of them then you can make it sound quite nice with the aid of a seperate crossover. I would however suggest that you consider going for 2 or 3 ported 10s or 12s as they will get loud enough on the right amp/s and will be easier to setup.

With regards to the caps. You could go for one large 3 or 5 farad cap and split it between all the bass amps...That should save you a bit of cash and will again be easier to install and look nicer.

The speakers you have gone for are quite nice sounding. However i would keep them all the same make in the car if you are going for SQ with them. Just to keep things on one level.

Dont get me wrong..im not saying that the system wont sound good. But it seems to be a bit of a mix and match which may cause a few problems with regards to SQ.

What kind of budget are you working to? I can put a system spec together for you if you like that will have outstanding SQ but go loud as you will ever need.

Russ

Evil I.C.E. Car Audio

 

[theICEman]

Right, I see what youre saying, cheers for the advice. I was thinking about using a signal processor with built-in EQ and fully adjustable crossovers/roll away settings, so that should help for the freq. separation attributes for the subs. Im pretty sure I want either 2 10"s and a 15" or 2 8"s and a 12" tho, because I need small subs (ideally in sealed box) to drop fast and give me clean, crisp bass - I would like these ideally to be set up for stereo as well. And then the 12"/15" would be ported for the bottom end frequencies, powerful rolling basslines. Basically, as I listen to a mixture of dance and hip-hop I need to cater for different sounds in a multi purpose set-up.

Brand-wise, I agree entirely with what youre saying about the same-brand aspect - the onyl thing is: first of all, Im so happy with the performance and quality of my existing JVC head unit (KDLX3R) that I wouldnt really want anything other than a top-end JVC unit. Other problem I have is that I already have the Mission amp (which is astonishingly good quality, Im sure you will have heard of Missions pedigree in home sound systems - their car stuff - although not the most powerful - is excellent as well), and I want to use this in my install. Secondly, I am not sure either Ground Zero or Cadence would cater entirely for my requirements either amp-wise or for speakers/subs. I dont think the beefy Ground Zero stuff would perform with the same crystal clarity as the Cadence speakers and subs, although I dont doubt their power handling capabilities. And for components, I need to hear some of the Ground Zero stuff, my choices with Infinity Perfect were based on my experience of listening to these, I found the quality was quite amazing! So I have a bit of a dilemma. I dont really want to mail order an entire system without hearing at least the majority of the same range of products. Ive heard GZ sub-and-amp set-ups, and a friend of mine got a Cadence Ultra-Drive install at Hendon Car Stereo which sounds beautiful (although not too loud).

Based on a budget of, say, for instance £1200-1500 (excluding head unit and the GZHA4125 amd Mission amps which I already have and plan to use), what would you recommend as a full set-up bearing in mind my multi-purpose requirements, which I accept will mean some compromises in terms of SQ and SPL?

Regarding the power feeding side of things, I havent a scooby what I would need to run 4 amps tbh! If its one big cap I need then fair enough!!

 

[theICEman]

Another thought... I suppose if I did go for 8"s instead of the 10"s, I could probably do without the boxed Kicker mid bass under the shelf. Otherwise, if I went for 10"s and larger, would my mid-to-low frequencies not suffer a little without these? Is there any other brand (apart form Kenwood!) who do decent dedicated 17cm woofers?

 

[Evil ICE]

Hi

Im going to stick my neck out and give you a few ideas. Some you mght like, some you might not. Obviously youre going for SQ with a heavy dose of the low bass that we all like to hear. I think with the system you have in mind you are going to need a lot more than you have budgeted for to make it sound nice.

Theres nothing wrong with going for a JVC headunit if you like the sound of them. The high end ones are quite nice anyway.

It sounds like you are set on having 2 different sized subs in the install so i will keep that idea in there. I would however recommend going for 2x 12s in small sealed boxes to give the punchy bass that you want and then have another of the same sub (again 12") but in a larger ported box to get the low rumbling bass. It is going to take a little while to get them set up to sound nice and you might get weird noises on certain tracks but its a compromise of that type of install. For subs in your budget I would recommend the JL W3s as they are superb in all areas and will handle loads of power. If you have all the same make of subs the install will look nicer too.

With regards to amps to power the subs..you are going to need 2 of them to get the balance right. For the 2x sealed 12s you could have the Rockford Fosgate bd500.1 which will power them nicely at 1ohm. For the ported sub you will have to go for the dual 2ohm version of the JL sub and run that off another bd500.1.

The rest of the system is easier to put together. if you like the sound of the Infinity Perfect components then go for a set of 6.5s in the front and a set built into the rear quarter panels. Run both sets off the Ground Zero amp that you have already. That amp will power them decently enough. Obviously they are quite expensive components. If you wanted to save £120 you could go for the Crystal CSC60s as they sound sweet and are £60 a set cheaper.

Now for the all important midrange that i can tell you are keen to get. I would ditch the Kicker and go for 2x Digital Designs 6.5" subs. They are the best mid speakers i have ever heard and are only £100 each. You can either build them into the rear quaters with the infinitys or better still build them into the front Kickwells or door builds to bring the soundstage forward. They will take around 300 watts RMS each so an amp to power them shouldnt be a problem. Something like the Rockford 500X would do the trick for both of them.

Unfortunately i cant find a place for your mission amp in the system but if you were thinking of going for DVD in the car at some point you could use it to power a centre channel speaker.

As the system is there you would be looking at more like £1900. Then you will need a couple of Optima batteries to run it plus all the cabling and some sound deadening material...oh and a pretty comprehensive crossover. Dont bother with a power cap..it would be a waste of money in that system as the Optimas will provide all the power it will ever need.

I think with everything included you would be looking at about £2900. It depends how far you want to go really as to whether you go for the cadence and GZ stuff or something similar to the above system.

Russ

 

[nfbr]

Sounds like a bit too much stuff to me! you must have loads of room in your car!

 

[Leigh]

Sounds like a pukka set up to me !!

I like the idea of using 6.5s as the mid range !!

The whole system would sound pukka on paper !! This really does sound like a system that would set you apart from any other clio on here !! Most people do the 2 x 12" sub thing and a set of componants. But to run two sets of componants and a set of 6.5s as well !! Now thats Class !!

3 subs !! yer sounds good to me !! 5 amps though , iF I COUNTED CORRECTLY. NOW THATS GONNA NEED SOME CAREFULL PLANNING FOR THE SPACE !! That and three subs in your boot is gonna be crammed !! Fooking like the idea all the same !!

oh and youll need a pit bull to protect it from going walkies !!

 

[theICEman]

Now that is a very good point! I think I will need to employ a 24 hour armed guard to sit in my car everywhere I park and make sure some TWOCing son of a b**ch doesnt half-inch the whole lot! Ill need to factor into my budget about another £600 for a top notch security system to make sure it all stays.

By the way Russ, I like the sound of this latest install, Im very grateful for the suggestions. Its going to mean a few more months of saving to get the cash together but itll be something special. Only changes are Im thinking that I might be as well with 8" subs in the shelf (Ive got a couple of Infinity Beta 8Xs Ive never used)?? with 13cm components in the rear pods and 6.5" components in the front doors (with maybe some 4" mids as well which I could run off my Mission amp) and these Digital Designs mini-subs for the front kickwells. Now for the sound processor/crossover unit, what on earth can I get to control this lot?? Ive got a 10-band passive EQ which Im not sure will be much use! I think Ill put this in the glovebox and my CD changers gonna have to be relocated to the boot or under the passenger seat (if Im not using this space for an amp!).

 

[cuptastic]

im not gonna say much on this one cos u seem pretty set in your mind any ways,

as russ said the midrange would be better if u could get them into the kick wells as low as possible to make your soundstage as wide as possible, especially if u are thinking of entering into comps u need a wide soundstage, kicker do some 8" mids which are nice, im not going to say what my MIds are just yet cos me and russ have a challenge on the go and im not planning on giving much away just yet unless he already knows.

the JLs will sound different on a rocky amp kind of harsh, be better on a JL but hey thats what they were designed with and they are more money but u do get what u pay for,

try not to put to many speakers into the system that u dont need, a 3 way set up will be fine, you dont wanna ruin the soundstage

Tom

 

[Evil ICE]

It sounds like you are keeping your system under wraps then Tom. We will be using 4 DD 6.5" subs as long as we can find a car that has deep enough doors to house them in.

I would agree with Tom on the number of speakers in the system. You dont want too many or it will upset the soundstage and sound all over the place. You are best going for a set of high quality components in the front, a set in the back for rear fill and the middrivers to help the fronts along. You also want to get the tweeters of the components on the dash facing up at the windscreen or as cose to the middrivers as possible for best SQ...Its not so critical for the rears.

With regards to the amp. I have heard a bd500 on a couple of JLs and set up correctly they work superbly even if the SQ of Rockford Class bd amps are an aquired taste. JL amps would also be a good option but you are talking a fair bit more cash. I would go for Crystal or Zapco amps if you were spending that much extra.

With regards to the crossover. Ive got a feeling youre going to need 2 of them for all those amps. Its either that or you can go for a 4way like the Zapco SLX-4 which is a superb piece of kit for SQ at only £310. You wont be able to run the mission amp off it though.

Russ

 

[cuptastic]

Russ

not under wraps just not 100% what i am going to put in?

i will be running 3 amps, u?

Tom

 

[Evil ICE]

Ours isnt set in stone yet but i think its going to be either 4 or 5 amps. One big one for the sub, 2 running actively with 1 amp per side and 1 or 2 for the 4 midbass drivers. Obviously there will be a full active crossover network and an epic 150 controller thrown in for good measure on the bass side of things. We have most of the plan together now but the Clio system is being upgraded when the new RE stuff arrives sometime this week. we are concentrating on that at the moment to get it ready for the soundoffs at the shows..well be competing at Donny with a bit of luck.

Oh and if anyone is interested..we have a spare RE HC12 sub also coming in this week after a slight change of plan on the system. If anyone wants it we are doing it at cost price to clear at £220. Its rated at 1200 watts RMS but will take around 4800 and has dual 2 ohm voicecoils. If you want it and have an amp that will run it e-mail us at mailto:sales@evilice.co.uk">sales@evilice.co.uk to put your name down.

Russ