Question for JAY172

[jamiepm]

Ive got an 03 172 Clio with 2 annoying faults and now Im pissed off with dealers fobbing me off with yes weve checked it out and all is ok (not)

Problem 1- Car when initially being started cut out and you have to then try again but sometimes it floods and because Clios only turn over for 2-3 seconds to protect the starter motor you cant get it going.It seems to do this more once the car is upto temperature so i presume the cold start solenoid can be discounted and that maybe the fault lies with the idle Control Valve but the dealers so that no fault has been logged by the ECU???.



Problem 2 -Suspension knocking when turning, generally when turning around small roundabouts and not neccessarily when giving it full chat.Dealer said that this was a common fault on 172s/Cups and was caused by movement within the suspension?? how can metal flex that much when it is such an integral part of the car I mean its not exactly body panel thickness, personally sounds crap to me.



Im going back to dealer tomorrow to demonstarte both faults to the numpties so they can actually do something it hopefully.



Your thoughts please

Jamie

 

[JAY172]

alright jamie.

fault 1-your clio should crank until you let go of the key.the only situations where it wouldnt crank/cranks only for a few seconds would be a faulty starter moter(rare though) or an immobiliser fault(more commen).if the vehicle(uch) cant detect a signal from the key(transponder) but the ing key is in the start position it will not authorise the starter moter or will cut it within a few seconds.sounds like the immobiliser from your description.there are some solutions on renault net about non starts .the dealer if they cant find faults should really have a look on here before returning the vehicle.there is definatly a petrol reprogramming note to do with non start problems on the 172.clios seem to suffer from immobiliser problems a lot as well.

fault 2-there is a solution to do with the knocking noise and if done properley it normally works.the knock is caused by the clearences between the shocker top and the shocker turrets are two small.when the steering/suspension is at certain angles due to the flex in the suspension bushes they catch togethor.the modification increases the clearences and so stops the knocking.

hope this helps,jay

 

[jamiepm]

Thanks for that Jay, I was told by the technician at Renault that Clios only turn over for a few seconds to protect the starter motor lying B****d.Ill let you know how they get on tomorrow



Thanks again Jamie

 

[JAY172]

should at least crank for 15 seconds(some other renaults cut the starter after that) but on clios i think they just crank until you let go of the key unless there is a fault as explained before.

 

[Lee]

Quote: Originally posted by JAY172 on 07 January 2004


alright jamie.

fault 1-your clio should crank until you let go of the key.the only situations where it wouldnt crank/cranks only for a few seconds would be a faulty starter moter(rare though) or an immobiliser fault(more commen).if the vehicle(uch) cant detect a signal from the key(transponder) but the ing key is in the start position it will not authorise the starter moter or will cut it within a few seconds.sounds like the immobiliser from your description.there are some solutions on renault net about non starts .the dealer if they cant find faults should really have a look on here before returning the vehicle.there is definatly a petrol reprogramming note to do with non start problems on the 172.clios seem to suffer from immobiliser problems a lot as well.

fault 2-there is a solution to do with the knocking noise and if done properley it normally works.the knock is caused by the clearences between the shocker top and the shocker turrets are two small.when the steering/suspension is at certain angles due to the flex in the suspension bushes they catch togethor.the modification increases the clearences and so stops the knocking.

hope this helps,jay

Ive had the fix for this applied twice and its still not fixed it. My dealer reckons 8 out of 10 fail.

 

[JAY172]

has it made any difference at all?

 

[Lee]

No mate. Still does it. As does Pootle172s, y0z2as and the one I test drove originally!!

 

[JAY172]

the ones that we have had that didnt work only seem to do it very slightly now but the mod greatly improved the problem.i think the only way forward is for everybody to keep ringing customer services to get the point across and maybe they will take notice.also dealers should submit tech alerts to renault to show the mod doesnt fully work.

 

[Lee]

I agree that mine now does it to a lesser extent, and the others Ive driven are similar.

Mine used to be a real clunk now its a more a gentle knock!

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

if the immobiliser light goes out tho, and the uch clicks when you turn the key but the starter doesnt turn is this likely to be a faulty starter then rather than an immobilliser fault? or is it likely to be a uch fault?

cheers chaps!

 

[JAY172]

if the uch clicks when the key is in the start position then its most likely the starter moter.i would check the condition of the starter moter solenoid terminal first.

 

[Liam_Dynamique]

cheers jay mate

 

[jamiepm]

Sorry for the delay as we had a debate over what is/isnt covered! knocking noise seemed to be cured but starter problem is still there>Technician told me to watch to see if the red light flashes on the dash(transponder?) when the fault occurs.What they have done is change the starter relays as this is a fault they have come across with water ingress.They said they need the car for a week to ensure they sort it but wont give me a courtesy acr meanwhile so Ive said no chance!hopefully will get them to see it my way before to long



Jamie

 

[CUPPY]

hi mate i have the exact same problems...no faults found from reanul on the starting as usual plus i now have to wait for reanult to find a cure for the knocking sound as i had the above and it didnt cure the fault...lets face it never gonna be fixed cos reanult will look at cost etc and will never find a solution..gonna lower the car and see if that helps!!

 

[JAY172]

alright jamie,from your description it sounds like the immobiliser.9 times out of 10 its the transponder ring but we do have faulty key heads as well.does it fault with either key and what does the immobiliser light do when it faults? did your dealer check the starter solenoid terminal as well-commen problem.

any more info on the non start problem cuppy mate?(eg-immobiliser light,when it happened etc)

 

[jonnyboy]

Quote: Problem 2 -Suspension knocking when turning, generally when turning around small roundabouts and not neccessarily when giving it full chat.Dealer said that this was a common fault on 172s/Cups and was caused by movement within the suspension?? how can metal flex that much when it is such an integral part of the car I mean its not exactly  body panel thickness, personally sounds crap to me.


Yes I agree thats total bullsh*t.

Ive had the precise same problem you mention m8, I had to take a technitian out myself in the car before they believed there was a fault.

Ask them to look on the ACTIS system. They should try moving some A/C pipes away from the zorst heat shield for starters. Also mine had a split driveshaft which was also replaced (I think they might have just noticed this when doing moving the pipes though) Theres also a fix on ACTIS involving the strut tops but Im unsure of the details on that.

Just persist with them m8. If your dealers anything like mine they have a "level 1" total bullsh*t brush off, usually "no fault found" or "This is normal for a performance car".
Then "level two" which is "yes theres a fault but we dont know what it is or how to fix it"
Then "level three" where you actually get the damn thing fixed lol

See my other post in clio discussion, Im 50/50 at the moment weather the knocking is completely gone but having been out in the car yesterday I think its definately improved.

 

[jamiepm]

Guys,

Until speaking to you lot & Renault Id not noticed what the immobiliser light was or wasnt doing!(just ranting when it kept leaving me stranded!) So Ill keep you posted on what I see and also how Renault look to resolve my issues.



Jamie

 

[JAY172]

Quote: Originally posted by jonnyboy on 11 January 2004

Quote: Problem 2 -Suspension knocking when turning, generally when turning around small roundabouts and not neccessarily when giving it full chat.Dealer said that this was a common fault on 172s/Cups and was caused by movement within the suspension?? how can metal flex that much when it is such an integral part of the car I mean its not exactly body panel thickness, personally sounds crap to me.

Yes I agree thats total bullsh*t.

Ive had the precise same problem you mention m8, I had to take a technitian out myself in the car before they believed there was a fault.

Ask them to look on the ACTIS system. They should try moving some A/C pipes away from the zorst heat shield for starters. Also mine had a split driveshaft which was also replaced (I think they might have just noticed this when doing moving the pipes though) Theres also a fix on ACTIS involving the strut tops but Im unsure of the details on that.

Just persist with them m8. If your dealers anything like mine they have a "level 1" total bullsh*t brush off, usually "no fault found" or "This is normal for a performance car".
Then "level two" which is "yes theres a fault but we dont know what it is or how to fix it"
Then "level three" where you actually get the damn thing fixed lol

See my other post in clio discussion, Im 50/50 at the moment weather the knocking is completely gone but having been out in the car yesterday I think its definately improved.

the solution for the strut tops is a ti note.both solutions can be found on renault net>technical services>technical bulletins.

 

[jamiepm]

Jay,

What is the web address for the above as I cant find it??

Thanks Jamie

 

[JAY172]

sorry mate that was aimed at renault staff.you can only access ren net through dealership computers i should have put that down.

 

[CUPPY]

jay..it seems to happen every time to go on a long journey and stop the car...if you then after a couple of minutes try to start the car again it just wont start at all..after take the key out wait a couple of minutes then it starts..does this every singe time without fail..didnt notice any lights at all on the dash like the ass i am!!!

 

[JAY172]

keep an eye on the dash lights and i will see if theres anything about non start problems on renault net-ok

 

[jamiepm]

Bit of an update!, theyve changed the UCH twice!,starter motor, numerous relays and it seems more unreliable now.And the latest is they are waiting for technical support from Renault UK as they dont know what to doTheyve had athe car for 2 weeks solid now and still not fixed and Im pissed at not getting this sorted.Just thought Id let you know



Jamie

 

[JAY172]

Quote: Originally posted by CUPPY on 11 January 2004


jay..it seems to happen every time to go on a long journey and stop the car...if you then after a couple of minutes try to start the car again it just wont start at all..after take the key out wait a couple of minutes then it starts..does this every singe time without fail..didnt notice any lights at all on the dash like the ass i am!!!

poss tdc sensor

 

[JAY172]

Quote: Originally posted by jamiepm on 06 February 2004


Bit of an update!, theyve changed the UCH twice!,starter motor, numerous relays and it seems more unreliable now.And the latest is they are waiting for technical support from Renault UK as they dont know what to doTheyve had athe car for 2 weeks solid now and still not fixed and Im pissed at not getting this sorted.Just thought Id let you know



Jamie





maybe a wiring loom fault.

 

[jamiepm]

Bit of an update, after changing everything twice including sections of the loom Ive had enough! Im now starting the process of getting a replacement vehicle from Renault as they simply dont know what to do next



Jamie