Stupid question time! DCI's...

[JP83]

So, I like to think I have some mechanical knowledge.

The 1.5 DCI's, specifically the Mk3. Obviously there are 3 variants. The 68bhp, the 86bhp and the 106bhp.

What is it that creates the power difference between them? I would assume turbo first of all, but is the Engine Management different?

Just curious to be honest!

 

[glenn_adam_doble]

I believe the injectors are different

 

[JP83]

I believe the injectors are different

​I'm guessing an increased flow rate?

 

[Chip-mk1]

I am not so familiar with the mk3, but would imagine it follows the mk2 where the lowest one has no intercooler, and middle and higher do, and the highest one has a bigger turbo and bigger injectors.

 

[JP83]

Interesting. I suspect though it wouldn't be as easy as bolting on the turbo and bigger injectors though and expecting the same output. For example, getting a 106 turbo and injectors and fitting them to the 86bhp engine.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Interesting. I suspect though it wouldn't be as easy as bolting on the turbo and bigger injectors though and expecting the same output. For example, getting a 106 turbo and injectors and fitting them to the 86bhp engine.

You will need to alter the map if you change the injectors.

IMHO the best combination for (the mk2 Im more familiar with) is either the lower model with retrofitted injectors and intercooler or the middle variant, and then in both cases with a remap.

That will see 100bhp but much nicer power delivery than the DCi100 and better economy too.


Mike from MWM has a cracking example of that, ask him for a testdrive if you are ever near him Im sure he wont mind. (he is near heathrow, in staines)

 

[JP83]

Cool. Just toying with ideas that will probably never come to fruition!

A remap on the 86bhp model I've got should see it kick out about 105-110bhp, with torque going from 200nm to 240nm.

Just had a quick tot-up:

2nd hand injectors: £200 a set
Ultrasonic cleaning for injectors: £100 a set
New Turbo: £400
Gaskets: £100 approx

​

 

[Alastair.]

68, no intercooler, 86 intercooler, 106 different pump and injectors.

 

[JP83]

68, no intercooler, 86 intercooler, 106 different pump and injectors.

So different fuel pump as well? Again, I'm guessing for increased flow rate?

 

[JP83]

I still want to do this - does anyone have any info at all?

Would the 106 injectors and fuel pump be suffice?
HMS Derv Destroyer

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

depends what you want out of it?

bosch fuel system on yours ?

 

[JP83]

depends what you want out of it?

bosch fuel system on yours ?

I assume so?! No idea my friend. If I could get it to 106bhp territory, then I'd get it remapped. Should be circa 125bhp-130bhp then apparently (At least that's what a standard 106 maps to).

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

you'd get 106 hp out of it from a remap now and a decat.
but you'd be on the limmits of the injectors and pump.

if its as easy as i think it is, you might be able to fit a BMW R50/70 pump and have a hybrid injector set.
should easy get you to 120 and above !

106 pumps and injectors arnt going to be easy to source i know that for sure.

i'll do some digging into what you can retro fit

seems as noones proved what a k9k can handle safely its all scarymongers !

 

[JP83]

Yeah, the remap folks I've spoken to said anything from 100bhp - 110bhp on a remap alone.
How loud is it without a de-cat? Lol.

The 106 is used in the Megane, Kangoo and Qashqai too I believe. Might have better luck from the latter. Believe it's this part number: 8200380253

The pump is a little more difficult to find at present.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

its siemens by the look of it .

if it was bosch, you'd have endless pumps fit.

decat just makes more turbo whistle at low revs but opens up the engine a treat.

that and a remap would make it allot more torque'y

 

[JP83]

So definitely need a 106 pump then. I wonder how much they are new.... LOL.

Might look into a decat. Again, no idea if it's at the manifold or through the system itself.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

its bolts to the turbo and then the exhaust bolts to the cat.

looks it mate, new .... you'd be looking at 500notes lol.

 

[JP83]

Haha! Seems a bargain!

Just looked in my haynes, and there's something about the timing belt needs renewing on the 106 without exception. But on the 86 and 68 models if you remove/ refit a pump the belt can simply be locked with the tools and the pump removed.

 

[RenMatt]

The 106 bhp is a different engine not just the turbo pump & injectors . Injectors are siemens as is pump not Delphi & in my opinion much better the pump has a smaller drive pulley , The crank on a 106 is stronger . the block is different as are the crank pulley & water pump . The timing belt on a 106 doesn't need changing at 72,000 miles is 94.000 but still every 5 years . And with a good remap 120 to 130 bhp is achievable but the mpg can go out the window

 

[sburrell93]

As RenMatt just mentioned, the block on the 106 is different. Again, not sure about the mk3's, but I know on the mk2's the dci 100 had uprated pistons as the increased fuel rail pressure starting pitting them and in some cases blowing holes in them.

 

[JP83]

Lol, ok. Sounds like I won't be going down that route then!

Decat then - is it worth it? Apparently the right-hand driveshaft needs to come off to remove it.

 

[sburrell93]

I'd take that with a pinch of salt if i'm honest lol, that's only what i've read about the engines. People have remapped the mk2 dci 80's up to around 100hp no problem before, and the mk3's are a lot newer so maybe wouldn't even suffer from the same problems! Figured it was worth mentioning though. HMS derv destroyer knows his stuff on the pumps and injectors front though, I'd listen to him over me :rasp:

Decats are definitely worth it IMO. I've got a hollowed out cat on my dci atm and it gets rid of a lot of the turbo lag, makes the car a lot more responsive. I got mine out without removing the driveshaft. Just removed the upper engine mount and supported the engine on a jack, pulled it as far forward in the bay as I could with a ratchet strap and it left me JUST enough room to get the cat out with a lot of wiggling. Everyone else I spoke to before I done mine had to remove the driveshaft though...

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Destructive tuned! have some balls haha

i should be good for allot more power now Iv retro fitted Mahle k9k pistons instead of the shitty Renault stuff.
Just hope this Mondeo pump works aswell as I need it to !


easier way is drive shaft off , no way your getting it out the top on a mk3 , the engine is already sat that far back

 

[Martin_172]

106 is worth it for the 6speed box

86/88 feels quicker about town as its more responsive lower down the revs but 106 goes better when you get it up the revs

 

[JP83]

106 is worth it for the 6speed box

86/88 feels quicker about town as its more responsive lower down the revs but 106 goes better when you get it up the revs

Engine conversion time?! Lol.

 

[Martin_172]

you could probably just stick the 106 turbo and fuel pump or what ever else is different onto your block, in other parts of Europe they map them to 140hp+

 

[JP83]

you could probably just stick the 106 turbo and fuel pump or what ever else is different onto your block, in other parts of Europe they map them to 140hp+

I wasn't sure if the turbo was a straight swap or whether it was different on the 106?
Apparently the block is different too, stronger crank (as said at the end of the previous page).

Might just be better to stick with a remap, panel filter and a decat.

 

[Martin_172]

im not sure if the blocks are different, apparently the dci 100 internals were different but it was Edde that said that and im not sure where he got it from.

its a different turbo but will be interchangeable may just need the manifold, downpipe and oil feeds. no idea on the management side of things!