TB's or not TB's

[john182rs]

Well i have been to see the toy master recently and he did enlighten me in to the world of throttle bodies.
I do an will want tbs in the near future but i also want to keep the air con for summer when its roasting hot, yea i know it looses power but still ill have more than i got now.
But what else should i be buying in the mean time or should i get the TBs aside then get the bits after.
I know it sounds daft but im not allowed to drive the car for a year so i might aswell do things with it then get in a beast of a motor.

 

[Bradharding]

Being nosey. Why can't you drive it for a year?

 

[LegoHead]

Just go for turbo, they spool up pretty quick and more power can be achieved.

Can't really compare direct to a throttlebodied car apart from the noise they make. I would have a tb'd car over a turbo any day just because of the noise if that's all i wanted.

I would wait a while to see what the various tuners are doing with superchargers as this could be miles better than both tb and turbo.

 

[TheJesus]

get it all done at once John, otherwise you're paying labour rates twice over for things when doing it once will save you money. Put it on a card if it's too much at the present time, then pay it off over the period you were saving up for it (if that's what your doing that is).

And dont bother with a turbo imo, not unless you like having a car you cant drive because it's being rebuilt time and time again. I'm sure the turbo boys will say this isn't the case, but having witnessed my mate have one and some of the lads on Williams Clio, it's clear as day that they just aren't reliable... in the slightest. At least with ITB's you can use stock clutch, box etc with much extra worry, dont need rebuilds etc etc and over a 1/4 mile I'd not think there's that much difference as you can get the power down. Nick Reads and Lee's turo from here still cant match an ITB'd car down the strip!

 

[Batman]

well i've been looking into both turbo and itb for the summer and personally i keep worrying about breaking the box with 300bhp anymore you really wont be able to use that well where itb's you can put on have a decent amount of power and dont have to worry about

turbo blowing
letting turbo warm up and cool down
gearbox going bang due to torque
turbo kicking in round a tricky corner on track

 

[TheJesus]

main thing for me is one is reliable and the other isn't. Low pressure turbo costs the same and makes around the same power too, but relies on the stock internals... Renault never intended them to be used with forced induction, so naturally they blow holes in the side of blocks from time to time!

 

[Batman]

main thing for me is one is reliable and the other isn't. Low pressure turbo costs the same and makes around the same power too, but relies on the stock internals... Renault never intended them to be used with forced induction, so naturally they blow holes in the side of blocks from time to time!

so what you doing with your car now then? superchargin? i was speaking to andy last night while on forza and he was saying their bringing out some new itb's in beginning of 08 with tbc price though

 

[LegoHead]

main thing for me is one is reliable and the other isn't. Low pressure turbo costs the same and makes around the same power too, but relies on the stock internals... Renault never intended them to be used with forced induction, so naturally they blow holes in the side of blocks from time to time!

I think you are talking crap tbh.

Either setup with the same power would just be as reliable as the other if other influencing factors were identical. i.e. driver, servicing....

They will both required the same amount of air in the combustion chamber to get the same power out surely...

 

[philthy]

itbs ftw, its all about NA power

 

[LegoHead]

itbs ftw, its all about NA power

:rasp: Eat my dust slow boy.

 

[TheJesus]

so what you doing with your car now then? superchargin? i was speaking to andy last night while on forza and he was saying their bringing out some new itb's in beginning of 08 with tbc price though

I think you are talking crap tbh.

Either setup with the same power would just be as reliable as the other if other influencing factors were identical. i.e. driver, servicing....

They will both required the same amount of air in the combustion chamber to get the same power out surely...

shame what you think and know are two totally different things then eh? Lets see, Nick Reads turbo... blew up several times, cost over £30k to get right (and still blew up), went through gearboxes for fun, was constantly breaking down and spent more time off the road than on it. Coops' turbo'd Clio, went bang and only just lasted 10k miles... haven't you also gone through boxes on yours and had a load of trouble with it? Proof is in the pudding, mine's done over 40k miles and will easily do another 40'000 as a daily driver (and abused on track). Compressions etc isn't altered or affected, it's not having air forced in, ITB's are simply more reliable

 

[Dan@SJM]

I think you are talking crap tbh.

Either setup with the same power would just be as reliable as the other if other influencing factors were identical. i.e. driver, servicing....

They will both required the same amount of air in the combustion chamber to get the same power out surely...

itbs ftw, its all about NA power

:rasp: Eat my dust slow boy.

who's is still running though...


Also, come and have a play against a 190ish bhp 172...

 

[TheJesus]

turbo'd cars you mean? No idea? Is there any that haven't blown up that get driven regularly?

 

[Dan@SJM]

well steves blew the h/g, Daves is in pieces, yours is still running lol.

 

[TheJesus]

NA wins then

 

[Dan@SJM]

lol indeed. NA FTW! cant beat the sound either...

 

[Diesel_Power]

I can honestly say ive never heard of a success story from a turbo clio, id expect g/box to go but what is wrong with the block? Surely some forged bits, pistons etc would work, heck theres plenty of Saxo turbos and SC Saxos been used as daily drives and there fine, why is the more modern better built engine from the 1*2 so unreliable?

Also how do the 1*2 engines respond to cams + tbs? High comp pistons on top and forged bits in theory should make decent power gains for relatively low costs (im looking at the £30k post above) than a turbo, and out on track i certainly know which power delivery id want.

 

[john182rs]

Being nosey. Why can't you drive it for a year?

No problem mate. i got caught for being a daft hunt doing twice the speed limit.
Jesus im looking at buying the bits an our little friend Andy said he would put all the pieces aside then to go in for a mass fitment one day.
Ive got around 600 aside an looking at buying the main thing for the engine first then cut down the costs as i go along, then some time in august/september time just leave my car with them till november when ill get my license back an then most prob end up loosing it again shortly after (im not being serious about this last bit ok)

 

[LegoHead]

well steves blew the h/g, Daves is in pieces, yours is still running lol.

I was hoping no one would notice.lol.:rasp:

 

[philthy]

itbs ftw, its all about NA power

:rasp: Eat my dust slow boy.

right thats it lets go have a race... s**t yours is broken, nevermind :rasp:

 

[LegoHead]

I think you are talking crap tbh.

Either setup with the same power would just be as reliable as the other if other influencing factors were identical. i.e. driver, servicing....

They will both required the same amount of air in the combustion chamber to get the same power out surely...

shame what you think and know are two totally different things then eh? Lets see, Nick Reads turbo... blew up several times, cost over £30k to get right (and still blew up), went through gearboxes for fun, was constantly breaking down and spent more time off the road than on it. Coops' turbo'd Clio, went bang and only just lasted 10k miles... haven't you also gone through boxes on yours and had a load of trouble with it? Proof is in the pudding, mine's done over 40k miles and will easily do another 40'000 as a daily driver (and abused on track). Compressions etc isn't altered or affected, it's not having air forced in, ITB's are simply more reliable

Fair point, just trying to wind you up.

I wouldn't mind a go in a tb'd car. I love the noise of them too, the turbo is a bit chavtastic to be honest and exhaust is too quiet.

I haven't gone through any gearbox's yet, but the clutch plate is destroyed and so is my engine. I blame the reliability of the engine on the people before me. K-tec are rebuilding it and they say they have never had problems with any of their conversions.

 

[makavelli]

this may sound silly but if youve got a year to do it then is it worth you sourcing the parts and fitting it all yourself? then take it to andy for a final check over and fuelling/mapping day?

that way you get to spend your time reading up and learning all about it, kinda like if you were to get a kit car for the year and learn all about the motor? kinda gives you something productive and educational to do as well?!

just an idea like

 

[TheJesus]

Jesus im looking at buying the bits an our little friend Andy said he would put all the pieces aside then to go in for a mass fitment one day.
Ive got around 600 aside an looking at buying the main thing for the engine first then cut down the costs as i go along, then some time in august/september time just leave my car with them till november when ill get my license back an then most prob end up loosing it again shortly after (im not being serious about this last bit ok)

your best doing that really mate, get all your bits n pieces together and doing it all at once to save costs. Works out cheaper in the long run

Fair point, just trying to wind you up.

I wouldn't mind a go in a tb'd car. I love the noise of them too, the turbo is a bit chavtastic to be honest and exhaust is too quiet.

I haven't gone through any gearbox's yet, but the clutch plate is destroyed and so is my engine. I blame the reliability of the engine on the people before me. K-tec are rebuilding it and they say they have never had problems with any of their conversions.

Well, I'd lend you a go in mine, but it's going back to standard(ish) at the moment, the ITB's have been sold now, so it's ready for it's next stage of development.

I know Ktec say these conversions are reliable, but to be fair they would say that. I'd like to see a list of customers cars that have been turbo'd and their repair history... bet it makes long reading either way lol

 

[Andyman]

What kind of quarter mile times are TB'd 172 / 182's getting ??

 

[fmp_]

bodies FTW!

 

[Martin]

What kind of quarter mile times are TB'd 172 / 182's getting ??

high 13s / flat 14s....

 

[Fred@BTM]

some cups do flat 14's

and if anyone says you can't have throttle bodies AND air con they're talking crap

Jesus - you can't drive, hence why your car has lasted (only joking, you STILL haven't sent me your address, your xmas present is sat here still!!!!!!)