tech questions for racing ppl

[wongy008]

right i had a moment of logical thinking earlier that has left me a bit puzzled.

these dont come that often with me so here me out,

anyway right i was driving up a road i use regularly and i always take it a bit faster each time pushing my car.its a sharp semi sweepin left in the road, anyway on way back i did the same bend in opposit direction taking the same line. logic would say they i can attack the same corner in both directions going in the same speed and coming out the same spped in same conditions. which i did

the question is on a larger scale would this hold true on a race track??

would the quickest flying lap in one direction be the same as the quickest flying lap going round in opposite direction,??

now im not dumb enough to apply this theory to a oval track but say it a track with.


long straights
sweeping Ss
tight hairpins
long sweeping corners
now the track has now climbs or slopes and is perfectly flat

dont know how much of a question this is but i think although its going round the same track in opposite direction i cant see it being any harder than going round it normal

i mean its just the reverse as i experienced on normal roads. surely the apex and racing lines are just the reverse or is it actually sometimes more difficult doing it backwards or even easier

now that my though

plz anyone wanna expand on what i though or is what i though correct or is is actually harder or even sometimes doing a race track in reverse

wongy

 

[aaronc]

How ya doing mate?

I think theorectically it should be the same time?

 

[m@thew]

id say the times would differ, if say you have a hair pin, long straight and then a sweeping corner, in 1 direction you start the stright at a slow speed but in the other coming off the sweeping bend and so much faster down the striaght.

 

[wongy008]

aaron

yeah i been good mate

i was bored after coming back from work and i gave this a lot of thought earlier,

could come to no real answer so i though id ask some ppl on here. i know we have some ppl that do track days and sh*t so id see how right or wrong i am

how is u

u want willy wheels now do u. thought u were getting one

wongy

 

[Matblack]

Defo get different times

Try this on Gran Tourismo and youll see why, some courses drive completly differently in opposite directions.

MB

 

[wongy008]

ok then mathew

i see ur point but ur saying that ok

one way u come from sweeping corner onto straight then into hair pin right. u have to get on the breaks hard to slow down for hair pin just coz u carried over more speed but u have to spend more time breaking

if say u did it in opposite direction doin slow hair pin first after it u can carry on accleration through straight and sweeping corner more time on throttle and less time breaking

surely a really really good driver would do similar times whatever directions

wongy

 

[wongy008]

ok MB

ive done so already with fettling of cars i could do the same track within a couple of seconds of each other. this is a flying lap carrying speed over start line

wongy

 

[aaronc]

Wongy

willy is still on the cards but not right now, somethings come up so will have to wait........

 

[wongy008]

aaron

by the looks of things ur car is faster than most willys already

when u going pod next give me a shout i wanna go thrash my car too

wongy

 

[BenR]

in theory line should be the same, but its not.

Once corner can be dead easy one way and a right barstud the other......

lap times will differ and you will prefer one way to the other.....usually your faster way lol.

When i race, i dont usually get the change to drive round the wrong way, it jsut doent happen due to run off area locations, gravel pits armco etc etc. and indeed, the less time spent braing will lead to a higer average speed and thus time.

A 110 deg bend saw, with a narrow entry and a wide exit will allow you to really plant the throttle on the way out...lots of space. IN reverse, itll be a late turn in as you have a tight exit and need a more precise entry. You might want o set the car up to point in the right direction before you hit the apex, etc etc....so it will differ....but a constant radius corner willbe the same either way.

 

[wongy008]

benR

new u would reply sooner or later being a racer yourself,

i was abit puzzled, i see where ur going with what ur saying

but i guess i forgot to say in the points that the track was never desgined to be specific to any one direction. just like on a road. so run off and entrance of corners have no increase or decrease in widths

bet that changes things a bit

 

[BenR]

if corners were perfectly constant, and mirror images, then it would be the same yes......

But im sure even if lines were exactly the same, corner weights and the way a car handles better one way than the other will affect times. typically, a car that handles better going right has faster times in a clockwise track....and vice versa.

also, some people will just go faster one way than the other, jsut like you wirte better with one hand than the other.......

You have come up with a b*****d question! lol

 

[wongy008]

benr

i guess its a post that will get a lot of head scratching and thinking more than some of the recent posts

yes there must be a answer and someone must have a reason to convince me otherwise or am i right. i cant see there being a difference if all factors i said were taken into account

even if u say a racer prefers one way round ,thats the driver that cannot adjust not the track being any harder or easier, the potential to do a lap time almost the same in either direction is the same surely.

wongy

 

[BenR]

IF, each corner was a mirror image at the apex, shumacher was driving a perfectly balanced car, and bassicaly, you couldnt tell you were driving it back or forwards.then yes, the time have the potential to be xactly the same for the mirror steering inputs of the track in one direction.

If ya get what i mean! lol

 

[wongy008]

that means im right.

my reasoning is correct than yeah,

i can rest easily tonight as its been bugging me all night

what if that

what is this

i just could not see there being any advantages or disadvantes going ineither way

wongy

 

[BenR]

well, on existing tracks, there will be a diff as there are far too many variables.....and basically no constants.

But it would be possible to create a track that was thw same both ways....

your right, perfect will equal perfetly similar times.

lol.......nutter.

 

[RSTDL]

Any track anywhere in the world driven in reverse is a totally different track unless it is exactly the same in reverse (impossible unless your on a champ car oval circuit - boring) Think Gran Turismo for a mo - they provide all the 20 tracks in rverse as well - now they arent the same as going around normally are they! Unless the driver specifically knows a track/s bothways the times will always be differnt - familiarity breads quicker times but on an unfamiliar road or circuit quick times initially are difficult to achiebe!

 

[Ben H]

Im always comfortable blasting along twisty roads that are uphill, but if theyre downhill, I hate going quick as I never feel in control of the back end of the car.

 

[RobFenn]

The times should be completely different. Braking distance would differ on every corner where the angle of entry is different in reverse. This would obviously effect your exit speed as well. The topology of the circuit will also be different in reverse.

 

[Eddd]

I raced on a track in New Hamshire, Bryar, which they used to run in both directions. It was a lot of fun going backwards but one sppoky bit was the end of the pit wall which looked a lot different as one approached its blunt end on the outside of the exit of a turn rather than just flyin past it in the other direction. If I remember correctly, there wasnt a huge difference in lap times but the track was completly different to drive.

 

[Eddd]

Another interesting race is the backwards one held at Lime Rock Park. They start the race with the checker and finish with the green flag. It is run in reverse! That is the cars have to go backwards.