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Time for an upgrade...willy.....


Having been the proud owner of the 16v for 4 and half years i feel its time to upgrade , i would prefer if i can not to sell my 16v as the investment keeping it in A1 condition over this time has added up into the thousands (im probably not alone here!).

I have been lately looking at buying a williams either to replace my 16v or to sit next to it on the driveway. OR do i get a CUP? Difficult choice.........

If i buy a cup it means selling the valver which i just cant face. So looks like the willy is the sensible option. BUT am very scared of buying one as i know there are some right sh*ters out there.

I looked in the paper before xmas and there was a fair few at around £5000. But now they all seem to be around £6000......has the willy priced increased lately? OR is there less around so people have raised the prices? (the old demand and supply comes in to play here).

Anyone seen any decent williams around........dont really care 1,2,3

cheers, aaron

Incendently i tried to explan the situation to my girlfriend who said "But why would you want to buy the same car again?"..................

they will never learn!

There are a couple in the For Sale.

pmitchell was selling his Willy 1, Ben (bjfosteruk) is selling his Willy3..


Dont sell your valver!

I still regret it to this day, and if its only worth a couple of grand assome are going for you may as well just increase your loan and keep your beloved valver.

Thats the thing, im not selling my valver................would like to get both.

aaronc dont get me started too i just missed this one

96 n willy 3 45k full reno service all mot and tax. 1 years tax and mot , new zorst.

they wanted 4899 ono

id get a williams.


I know that bjfosteruk on this forum is selling a Willy 3 with low mileage for £6k. Worth a look. Ive just bought a higer mileage Willy 3 for the same amount from a dealer, so Id PM the guy and see if it is still for sale...

  Clio 197

Buy mine for €5000! Sure, the steering wheel is on the wrong side, but that just makes it that much more exclusive!

Great car, but with two wee ones, Im moving in the direction of four doors.

Wongy where the hell did you see that??.............i would have snapped that up straight away

.....not just more power, but a change (not changing that much i suppose..), and ive always wanted a williams from day one.

After having a car for over 4 years (bought in early 99) its about time for a change!

after having has a 16v engine and a williams engine in my valver i think if you could make williams power from the peeky short stroke valver engine it would be a better car, more integra like, torque is great for easy lazy driving but the de-stroked F7 is a screamer and therte are people on here that have got 170BHP from relaitivily simple mods (less than 2 grand) i might get slated but as a drivers car i would prefere the power delivery of a tuned valver,

but the williams is a performance icon, the badge alone make people want one, if you like poseing (dare i say cruising) the get the williams, for a real driver car / track day car go to town on the valver lump.

before anyone says rubbish, its just my opinion and remeber i have had both engines in my valver.

one last point, a williams is rare but an 170+BHP valver is even rarer/unique.

Cup is nice but not as raw as the original car and there is much heavier depreciation to live with, but it would be the choice is i were doing lots of miles



before anyone says rubbish, its just my opinion and remeber i have had both engines in my valver.


I respect the fact that you makes ya choices, good for you. I agree that everyone has thier ideals .


therte are people on here that have got 170BHP from relaitivily simple mods (less than 2 grand) i might get slated


So in theory if you spent that much on a Williams you would have that and then the 13bhp on top the Williams has over the valver as standard.....and certainly wouldnt slate ya, your opinions are yours mate. Must add tho that te suspension is also better, for want of a better word, as standard between the Willy and Valver.

Aaron, test drive a Williams, hell if you are close to me Ill take you for a run. That would be the best way to KNOW if the williams is the car for you.


suspension is the same,as far as i am aware aprt from a slightly wider track at the front (not strictly suspension)

im on about power delivery, not out right power, of course if you did the same to a willaims the power would be more, but that isnlt my point, im talking about the charecterisitics of the engine.

i imagine my view is of the minority, fo most people thw willaims engine would be better but i would suggest that the F7 block was original designed as an 1800 and the 2ltr was an after thought. if it gained its capacity from the bore not the stroke it would be differnt. not having seen myself but i imagine the tollerances have been reached with the bore already ptrtty much

its not an exact science just personal prefernce

Well, Ive just driven Loftys 2.0 Williams converted 16v - and I hope hell take me up on my invitation to drive my tuned 16v some time soon, when Ive got the wheels back from being refurbished.

From the persepctive of actually owning a 170bhp 16v and having driven Loftys Willy-engined Clio, Id say I can see why Aaron wants both - they are that different.

The 2.0 is just effortless at low revs - I first noticed it at low speeds pulling out of junctions. But as soon as I really opened it up on a straight, it just didnt have the 16vs buzz. Now its each to their own here and I can see how people say one is better than the other - but if I could have both, then I really would! As it was, I guess I was just surprised that a car that felt so like mine in terms of controls (brakes/gears/steering) could have so much more pull at lower revs - and so much less pull when I expected it to leap forward at 4500rpm!

Im not sure if the Willy lump would make Loftys car quicker in a straight drag over my tuned 16v lump - but it would be a close call. In terms of pulling out of roundabouts and at lower revs, it would have the legs. But Ill bet that mine would pull ahead if dropping a cog at higher revs.

I agree with the exclusivity of a 170bhp 16v and think that you kind of kill the main driving character trait of a 16v by giving it low down thrust and less top end peakiness (sorry to 2.0 16v drivers, just my opinion). And the Willy is also an exclusive and desireable machine, that I certainly wouldnt want to change the driving character of.

So go for it Aaron - get both!

arhh to much to read and in a rush

but aaron and paranoia. i was gonna go buy it there and then then flog my 16v after, it was that appealing, it was a old lady owner too so would of been un thrashed like one of the cars we owned,.

aaron i did see a willy 1 with 50k on clock going for 5 k too

  350z & 16v Maxi

If I was ever to sell my valver it would only be for a completely standard willy with very low mileage.
  mk2 172

for seriously crap low down performance and a major power increase you gotta drive my vts, its literally sh*te upto 4.5 k then a mini turbo comes in! very similar to 16v really.

  williams and trophy

sorry lofty mate.....quote

"suspension is the same,as far as i am aware aprt from a slightly wider track at the front (not strictly suspension)"

different shocks r19 bottom arms thicker anti roll bars at the front

thicker torsion and anti roll bars rear, both wider track too

but i know where ur coming from lol

having had both a valver and a williams sat outside my house with me free to drive either 1 of them..........all i can say is the valver never moved till i sold it.

the williams really IS that much more fun to drive fast.and my valver was no slouch.the valver was a real thrashing machine but the williams isnt , but its faster which is y i sold my valver n paid 2 grand for a williams rather than spending 2 grand on my valver to make it quicker........just difrent animals

while looking for a williams - seems cheap.

2000 RENAULT CLIO 172 SPORT 2.0, 2000, W reg . 43917 miles, Metallic Silver, leather . . . £7000


WOW, that does seem cheap, too cheap to be true so it probably is ?.

It has got to be a dog for that money.


The Cup is the new willy, wait and see residual values should be better than the 172. Better suspension and lower, wider track, 89Kgs lighter, faster and belive it or not quite alot of low down torqe because it has less weight to drag around. It is a brill track car as well.

You must at least test drive one before you dismiss it.

Those travellers who make a living by nicking every dam item around them when they stop on illigal land.

That 172 is not too cheap...............its done 43k miles .......thats why