top gear made me think.....

[Russ_16v]

with the Renault Avantine(sp?) feature last night

Now i know that feature all wasnt truthfull, but it made me think about how much they had to spend to get the more performance.

Iv always had the idea of small things make the biggest difference, for example the exhaust system on my old hybrid made a big difference to performance, where the exhaust on my 172 doesnt feel like it has done much at all. The reason behind that is on my hybrid i fitted a de cat and manifold too, where my 172 only has a cat back system. The mods that my hybrid had performance wise knocked 2 secs off the 0-60 time, and knocked a creditable 6 secs off the 0-100 time and cost under £1000

Now if i wanted to tune that further id have to go into internal work and cams and headwork would cost another £1000 but how much faster would i actually go? not much i bet.

Brakes, decent pads and discs cost a 3rd of bigger calipers and bigger discs and day to day on the road offer the same braking performance as the bigger ones do

i know track work is different,and can understand buying a grands worth of coilovers, but on 9/10s of the british roads i would bet a car with well matched springs and shocks would cover ground just as fast

Im sure if we had, say, £1500 to spend on uprating all aspects (brakes,suspension and power) or £3000 to spend would the extra £1500 make you THAT much faster?

What im getting at is is it really worth us spending so much on our cars for what is not a huge amount of improvement?

Nice bit of discussion for a monday evening lol

 

[fUbAr]

no

 

[-R7-]

power to weight is everything on n/a cars, and free.

last nights episode was just scraping the barrel of something to put in the show.

 

[lewisniven]

yeah, cant understand why the didnt rip all the door cards out, dash, sound proofing, useless trim etc.

seemed to me like they put some amazing coilovers on, and exhaust, some racing seats, and then wondered why is wasnt as fast as an evo x.

as said, power to wieght ratio, they should of known that.

 

[fUbAr]

im all for doing mods which make financial sense... like replacing parts with uprated ones when they die (such as exhaust, brakes, filters etc).

Weight saving and handling is obviously worth while too... but chucking money at the F4R to gain a few bhp really isnt worth it in the real world.

 

[Mark One]

agreed. Step 1 should have ALWAYS been sprippage.

Spending money and seeing the gains is fun. It's most rewarding when you fabricate something yourself that makes a real difference.
Agreed you do have to throw a bit of cash, but you can't take it with you can you?

 

[Russ_16v]

agreed. Step 1 should have ALWAYS been sprippage.

Spending money and seeing the gains is fun. It's most rewarding when you fabricate something yourself that makes a real difference.
Agreed you do have to throw a bit of cash, but you can't take it with you can you?

thats my point though mate im all up for improving but is it worth spending £3000 going to make such a larger improvement that spending £1500?

 

[lewisniven]

there need to be a cliosport version, everyone should make a donation, and we buy an avantime for the club.

then volunteers from the club get to work on it.

then when we rekon its done, we ask top gear for a butchers on the track and have a stab at the Evo's time.

I rekon between us, we could do it for a fraction of what they spent.

intense strippage would negate the need for £3k worth of brakes straight away.

 

[Duck]

A decent CAI and remap would of made that 3.0L V6 come alive. 100% agree with R7.
For example: If you only use the front seats strip out the rears, that way the car is still practical for your everyday use but that little bit quicker. Get a large loan, then get a carbon-fibre monocoque made up from the loaned cash and drive it like you stole it.

 

[kie1an]

i dont understand the thinking of how they spent £9000 !!! lol for that money they could have got a turbo under the bonnet and still had change for some cheaper coilovers , stripped it out and it would have been a hell of alot faster . its just for entertainment etc

 

[JR]

no

+1

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

It's all relative.

No. Tuning is not worthwhile on most cars. You might aswell just buy a better car. The biggest question you have to ask yourself. Why bother tuning? Does it change anything... 0-100 is 6 seconds better.... Better than what? Sure if you had a pink slips race with someone that had a hybrid without the mods you did, it would've been worth it.

Otherwise.. Is it really worth it?

Brakes, whilst obviously important.. Brakes. If you brake that little later, it's still only going to be tenths of a second off your lap time (again, the only way you can really measure most mods). Obviously they have the benefit of better endurance, and whilst you're 200kmh - 0 is likely to be much better, does that make much difference to lap times when you're only braking from 200 - 100 ?

Suspension... It's mainly looks imo. If you put low, hard suspension on your average hatch, it will feel a lot more planted. Naturally, as you're lower to the ground, they won't compress as much, so you'll be feeling every bit of lateral force instead of losing some to body roll. Let's be completely unrealistic and say they add 5mph to each corner in terms of speed.. Is that going to reduce lap times? Probably, but you won't be getting 5mph more per corner. But remember with that small increase in holding and grip, you'll sacrifice some of the forgiving nature of most cars stock setup.

Long post I know, but it's common sense, taking the 10 seconds or whatever they did from the original lap time of the Avantime is massive when you think about it. 10 seconds is an age on a 1:40 lap time.

But even if you made your car 10 seconds faster round a small track.. It's 10 seconds faster than what?

That is all

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

there need to be a cliosport version, everyone should make a donation, and we buy an avantime for the club.

then volunteers from the club get to work on it.

then when we rekon its done, we ask top gear for a butchers on the track and have a stab at the Evo's time.

I rekon between us, we could do it for a fraction of what they spent.

intense strippage would negate the need for £3k worth of brakes straight away.

You reckon?

It's still an Avantime. Put whatever power you like through it, it will still be FWD with a long wheelbase. It's never going to be an Evo X and that was their point.

 

[Poopensharten]

Ive never actualy spent any more than about £1200 on making a car faster to be honest. Ive spent alot on aesthetically improving.

I always think that manufacturers build cars to a specific limit as far as the chassis,brakes and suspension. Can it really be improved with throwing money at it?

Thats down to personal judgement i suppose.

If you want to go fast then buy a faster car is the moto i keep.

There is no substitue for cubic capacity

AS for those 3 tits last night, they would have shaved alot of time off that 1.37.8 was it? If they just stripped every thing from the interior!

All ofcourse IMO

 

[r0ss172]

I personally believe its up to who ever wants to tune their cars. For most people its a hobby, and if thats what they wana spend their money on then fair play to them, its what they like to do afterall, even if they do only get a couple of extra horses for their months pay cheque.

 

[Spongebob 172]

i never ealised that servicing a car would give you that much bhp back...on the avanttime it was 154bhp before and 206bhp once they had done the service..how can that be

 

[DannyR]

I agree with your stripping lads but the idea was to keep it a 4 door family saloon! Hence no stripping and why when they did take out the seats they had to put 4 bucket seats in!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Ive never actualy spent any more than about £1200 on making a car faster to be honest. Ive spent alot on aesthetically improving.

I always think that manufacturers build cars to a specific limit as far as the chassis,brakes and suspension. Can it really be improved with throwing money at it?

Thats down to personal judgement i suppose.

If you want to go fast then buy a faster car is the moto i keep.

There is no substitue for cubic capacity

AS for those 3 tits last night, they would have shaved alot of time off that 1.37.8 was it? If they just stripped every thing from the interior!

All ofcourse IMO

They said from the begining it has to remain relatively practical. Sure they went OTT in the name of humour doing it with an Avantime. But the fact remains, mods are not worth it if all you want to do is go faster.

If you want to make your car a little more unique, look nicer for whatever reason or even sound nicer/pull better whilst sticking with what you know (i.e. not getting a different car) then fair play.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

i never ealised that servicing a car would give you that much bhp back...on the avanttime it was 154bhp before and 206bhp once they had done the service..how can that be

It wasn't just an oil change if that's what you mean.

 

[Poopensharten]

Im starting to not like Top Gear any more tbh.

Whats making a blender with a V8 engine got to do with Car journalism exactly?

Its these stupid exercises that they 3 think there better than the show its self...

Some of it really does my tits in i dont even know why i watch it to be honest.

 

[Russ_16v]

I can understand if you keep a car long term spending money on it, but i couldnt see myself having 2 grand in the bank and going out and spending it all i one go, id rather buy a better car (prob off someone off here who has already spent the money :quiet

of course im not meaning any offence to anyone

 

[Poopensharten]

I can understand if you keep a car long term spending money on it, but i couldnt see myself having 2 grand in the bank and going out and spending it all i one go, id rather buy a better car (prob off someone off here who has already spent the money :quiet

of course im not meaning any offence to anyone

There are starving hookers out there, spending that on your car would be just selfish lol

Hookers and beer ftw!

 

[DrR]

I'd rather spend the £ks driving it TBH, which i do.

 

[Inferno]

Evo magazine did something similar with their Ring M3 did they not? Obviously they picked a better car to start with, but it's still an NA car with limited engine tuning potential for that size of budget.

I thought they did pretty well to make a 300hp e36 M3 lap quicker than a Porsche 911 (996) turbo with 420hp!

 

[DannyR]

Whats making a blender with a V8 engine got to do with Car journalism exactly?

I agree with this but thought it was possibly something to do with the MPH show and they used it there?

 

[aucky]

yeah, cant understand why the didnt rip all the door cards out, dash, sound proofing, useless trim etc.

seemed to me like they put some amazing coilovers on, and exhaust, some racing seats, and then wondered why is wasnt as fast as an evo x.

as said, power to wieght ratio, they should of known that.

+1,
Turbo as well. bobsyouruncle

 

[Russ_16v]

they didnt use the v8 blender when i was at mph yesterday?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Im starting to not like Top Gear any more tbh.

Whats making a blender with a V8 engine got to do with Car journalism exactly?

Its these stupid exercises that they 3 think there better than the show its self...

Some of it really does my tits in i dont even know why i watch it to be honest.

Well you can just as easily read websites for reviews on cars. I think that episode was hilarious. The V8 blender actually had me laughing which I very rarely do when watching TV alone.

Either way, I think it's moved on from simply saying what they think about several cars. Great show imo.

 

[Ian_182]

If i had top gears bbc budget then i would probaly say yes.

Otherwise,NO

 

[Timmay]

Im starting to not like Top Gear any more tbh.

Whats making a blender with a V8 engine got to do with Car journalism exactly?

Its these stupid exercises that they 3 think there better than the show its self...

Some of it really does my tits in i dont even know why i watch it to be honest.

becuase its funny?

gotta love the show - even if it is gimicky - its entertaining

 

[aucky]

Its more of an entertainment show now because it appeals to more than just car fans..
Fifth Gear if you want real reviews with less humour

 

[DannyR]

I don't know if it was there just at a guess as it looked like something they would use at a show due to them never usually starting engines up in the studioas its a confined space!

Top Gear is still funny as f**k though! And the avantime looked cooler than usual

 

[Poopensharten]

Nah i disagree, Clarkson tries to be funny with his metaphors and sarcastic inuendos which is fine, but it does get tiresome listening to the same shite every week.

And why are Hammond and May on it? Are they even car journalists>? It doesnt sound like it.

If i wanted to laugh id watch stand up, i watch programmes to find out about new and up coming cars. Not watch them trying to make cars into boats or trying to blend bits of brick and raw meat into a smoothy...

Never thought id say it but fith gear is better on the actual review of cars.

Sorry if you disagree but it is IMO

 

[jayxx83]

top gear is the nads. if i want a car review ill buy a magazine. dull tv reviews are not my cup of tea tbh.

what i and i think most would like to see, is the most outrageous ultra expensive cars, being hooned around in. youd never see it anywhere else otherwise.

 

[Brett]

I think top gear is brilliant. Its about entertainment more than cars and imo, and many many others if you look at the ticket waiting list they hit the nail on the head with every episode. I do agree that 5th gear is better for reviewing cars and I also never miss an episode of that.

Yes yesterdays experiment wasnt great, 1st thing i thought was strip it bare but they obviously didnt.

With regards to the subject of the thread tbh on a N/A car you USUALLY need to spend quite a lot of cash to get good power gains i.e cams, bodies etc For example when i get a 1*2 i won't go for power mods, i will get a decat and exahust, maybe an IK but that will be for sound rather than power, although it does add a bit of power and drivability. I'd mod to make the car better to drive, to look better etc not so much to be faster.

Sorry for the essay.

 

[Evil Ally]

Depends on the mods. I'm pondering wheels and coilovers, but only because it's easy to refit the stock parts before I sell the car. Then I can sell on the wheels and coilovers seperate and recover a large part of their purchase price. Things like remaps, engine work etc are economically a poor investment.