Torn between 2 cars....

[rams_clio]

Which car is best for a track car base. 172 cup or a phase one (early one with shift light and light bonnet). Both cars will be modified chassis wise but not many changes made to engine etc.

Thanks

 

[imprezaworks]

The best maintained one out of the two

 

[MG cup]

Seems most ph1's are becoming quite prone for rotting around welded points and sandwiched areas where water has sat. If you're wanting a proper, easier to mantain and cheaper car to maintain then definatly go 172 cup.

Most end up turning their 172/182's track cars into cups anyway with the cuo alternator setup, stripping the ABS, subframes/wishbones etc etc.

IMO a much better starting point.

 

[imprezaworks]

Or get the best possible 172 with the nice bits allready done

 

[BoatNonce]

The best maintained one out of the two

This IMO.

 

[adamlstr]

This IMO.

+2

 

[Goodj]

^ all that

 

[rams_clio]

Viewed the phase one and thought it was far too good to pass. A nice solid base. To many cups have been hammered which put me off, also like the originality of the phase ones.

Thanks......more to follow

 

[Goodj]

To many cups have been hammered which put me off

Which a track car would never be, huh? Wut?

Still, you did the right thing

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Seems most ph1's are becoming quite prone for rotting around welded points and sandwiched areas where water has sat. If you're wanting a proper, easier to mantain and cheaper car to maintain then definatly go 172 cup.

Most end up turning their 172/182's track cars into cups anyway with the cuo alternator setup, stripping the ABS, subframes/wishbones etc etc.

IMO a much better starting point.

Touche!
After a recent outing at Brands I've found myself looking at Cups to save myself the whole deleting costs (aircon/PAS - debating ABS).

If you were to swap wishbones, do you then need longer driveshafts? Are the cup parts different?

 

[Mr R.]

No mate, the cup wishbones increase the caster.

 

[Inequality Street]

No mate, the cup wishbones increase the caster.

I thought Caster was sugar. I know what Camber is, what's caster?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

No mate, the cup wishbones increase the caster.

I thought 172 Cups had a wider track than 172s. Isn't castor essentially the angle from the hub to the top mount when looking from the side..

 

[Mr R.]

The position of the wheel in the wheel arch.

To the front or to the back, cup wishbones move the wheel forwards giving a faster turn in.

 

[MarkCup]

I'd be inclined to go 172 Cup...but as above, best condition one is best.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Also increases camber of the outer wheel when turning if I'm not mistaken.

 

[MG cup]

Touche!
After a recent outing at Brands I've found myself looking at Cups to save myself the whole deleting costs (aircon/PAS - debating ABS).

If you were to swap wishbones, do you then need longer driveshafts? Are the cup parts different?

As said... The cup wishbones increase the caster by rotating the ball joint forward with slightly different hole drillings and will not need a change of driveshafts but if you think about it then they would be slightly more extended than with standard wishbones. Not a big problem.

Fitting a cup subframe is what gives you the wider track before wheel offsets..... again having different drillings in the wishbone mounting points on the subframe.... 172 cups have the longest of all driveshafts in the range and are one piece. Although it is possible to fit the longer 182 two piece driveshaft which gives you almost equal length shafts and it will reduce on torque steer. Not a massive problem on an N/A Clio but a good point to note.

So.... in vehicle design it is by far the better car to start with for a track/race car if all that interest's you... Saying that it's all about fun and you would have just as much in any Clio. Get serious about suspension setups and you'll wish you had a cup. If not for the suspension nuances then strong engines they typically have and also things like the gear ratios in the boxes which are IMO the best of the range again. The list goes on really but I think the op has made his decision.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

As said... The cup wishbones increase the caster by rotating the ball joint forward with slightly different hole drillings and will not need a change of driveshafts but if you think about it then they would be slightly more extended than with standard wishbones. Not a big problem.

Fitting a cup subframe is what gives you the wider track before wheel offsets..... again having different drillings in the wishbone mounting points on the subframe.... 172 cups have the longest of all driveshafts in the range and are one piece. Although it is possible to fit the longer 182 two piece driveshaft which gives you almost equal length shafts and it will reduce on torque steer. Not a massive problem on an N/A Clio but a good point to note.

So.... in vehicle design it is by far the better car to start with for a track/race car if all that interest's you... Saying that it's all about fun and you would have just as much in any Clio. Get serious about suspension setups and you'll wish you had a cup. If not for the suspension nuances then strong engines they typically have and also things like the gear ratios in the boxes which are IMO the best of the range again. The list goes on really but I think the op has made his decision.

Thanks for the post mate. Yeahthe Op has bought a Ph1 but my question was actually for me as I'm thinking of retiring my Ph1 Clio from the road but before I start looking at aircon/pas/abs delete alone, it would be wise to consider chaning to a cup for that alone as I'm sure labour on those jobs alone would make up for the cost of switching models.

Like you say it's all about fun though.

 

[rams_clio]

Which a track car would never be, huh? Wut?

Still, you did the right thing

Yes it would be that's the point. I wanted a good strong base not one that had already been f&@ked and chucked!

 

[Brett]

Either will be great. I love my phase 1, it flys around track.