wacky cams or 2litre time

[jimbo1]

ok, the beast is finally road worthy, after being off the road for four months, having the entire abs sytem ditched and fitting a new rack-its really easy to remove the 16v engine! took me 1hr 30mins at one stage to remove it complete.

anyway, the bottom end has got 126k on the clock now, while the gasflowed head is only 10k old. im in the quest for more grunt, so its either gunna be wilder cams(maybe sum custom spec ground cams from gdi iof the price is rite) or go n get a 2litre megane bottom end and swap them over. both will cost the same, jsut dunno wat to do after xmas. a nice lightened flywheel wud finish them both off!

so come on then ppl, wat wud be my best bet

jimbo

 

[Ben j]

wild cams will bugger ya idle and low down power. but probably better overall bhp



2l will be more drivable through the revs and not much difference in acceleration terms i would ave thought

 

[Nick Read]

Id say both Jimbo. I had this exact dilemma a few weeks ago and the more you think of it, the more you cant just do one and then the other. I came up with a tidy spec which was 1.8 Stage 2 head with Piper 285 cams (for a Willy), and 2.0 bottom end. Can be had for well under a grand if you know where to look.

 

[jimbo1]

did u find many 2litre bottom ends nick? wat sort of price do they go for. needs to be sub 50k mileage really to be worth it

jimbo

 

[Clapshot]

Where do you find all that for that price? With the done what sort of BHP figures should you be getting??

 

[jimbo1]

well if your lucky enough to find a megane bottom end, they usually go for 500quid ish, but the problem is finding one. tho if your like lofty, you can find a full clio williams engine and box for 400quid! jammy bugger. jsut gota find em! the cams can be had for as cheap as 150quid for regrinds, then another 150quid for vernier pulleys, plus a chip to suit. a lightened flywheel is around 130quid. ud be looking at 165bhp with that setup maybe a little more. but the torque will be a lot more than the standard pooey 1.8! wack 100 shot of nitrous through it, and there wotn be much left of the front tyres

jimbo

 

[Nick Read]

Just off the top of my head Id say with 2.0 bottom, 1.8 head with 285s youd be seeing a solid 165bhp, a tidy increase over the piddly 137 standard of a 1.8.

I chucked all the details away, but I just rang around loads of scrappies and tuners to see what they had lying around, Willy pistons, bare Megane 2.0 blocks, cranks, all sorts out there for very little money if youre prepared to buy the stuff piece by piece and deal with 3 or 4 different places. Brand new billet Piper cams can be had for £450 if youre crafty, Kents for a bit more.

 

[maciek]

heh... just got my beautiful cams and blue-anodised verniers (by Catcams) yummy

bought second engine with crap block to have new parts and
gonna have head fully reworked, then engine piggybacked, and custom set-up.

dont know what to expect... but hoping for some more than 165... but how...

anyone has idea what to do with the t/body? i had one (from the second engine) throughlycleaned - looks really new pity I dont have digcam... and now I am wondering how to "uprate" it. it seems to be one of the weakest points of Clios intake, but there is no possibility to increase the diameter or do whatsoever to it...

 

[lofty]

Quote: Originally posted by jimbo1 on 01 December 2002


tho if your like lofty, you can find a full clio williams engine and box for 400quid! jammy bugger. jsut gota find em

I paid £300 in the end and got the manifold and everything, even at that £400 i still had to haggle and it saved me £100,

To be fair there is no way you could find stuff like that it was pure luck, the only way i would sugest to find the real bargains is to put a wanted add in your local free ads paper (Loot/trade-it etc)

this where you pick up stuf that has been sat around in peoples gardens,

i stil think i know a good source of 2 ltr race spec engines but havnt bothered looking into it yet, thatw ay you would have 2 ltrs and very highly strung head straight away, about 180-190BHP but thats with the right ECU and stupidly high rev limit,

my 2 ltr is miles faster in acceleration the my old 16v, i suppose the best comparision would be between my car and Ben Hs becase its a good example of each option, but we are still yet to compare notes, i still have a feeling his is alot faster from the way he talks about it but this remains to be seen, the 2 ltr swap cost me a grand basicaly inc. everything, less £300 is you swap it yourelf jimbo

 

[Ben H]

Ive gone up against a standard Willy and a standard 16v before now.

The Willy was very impressive - in a kind of "oh no I cant drop a gear, but I havent come on cam yet" kind of way. Like, say, chasing out of a junction at lowish revs in 2nd, where 1st would just cause wheelspin. But once I was at higher revs I began to reel in and then pass the Willy every time. Off the mark in 1st and 2nd, the difference was down to traction and driving style. Dropping a cog at higer revs would see me edge ahead too.

Against a regular 16v, mine does pull a little better, but it really pulls again at the higher revs. It accentuates the power delivery of the normal 16v.

The mods were done to my car before I bought it. But if I had the money, I would have the 2.0 every time. Mine may make better headline power than a non-tuned 2.0, but the torque delivery is still at sky-high revs. That means that it still has to be revved like hell and a Williams scalp is no walk in the park. If i get caught off guard, off cam, then its likely that many less exotic cars will have me - damn those infernal turbo diesels!

So - go for the 2.0.

 

[maciek]

go for the 2.0 blah blah... only if finding a 2.0 ltr bottom end was so easy can anyone experienced list all bottom ends which fit (or will fit with some effort...). Cause as I read all this You write I think that 2.0 litre bottom is needed.

 

[bondy]

GO A THE CAMS AND GIVE ME A BELL IL SORT YOU A NICE LITLE DEAL

 

[Ben j]

how much? what cams?

 

[Nick Read]

Maciek - look for an early Megane 2.0 bottom - the 2.0 16v F7R until 1998 or 99 I think? After that it was a different 2.0 engine.

 

[maciek]

do You realise how easy it is to get this sort of thing? - if You look for it the most common answer is.. sorry what? the same goes with JB3 048 boxes and many other nice parts

 

[maciek]

anyway bondy - what do you mean ...

 

[lofty]

you think this is hard but we have got it easy, there are people that rebuild cars that went out of production 80 years ago, imaganin the effort in a nut and bolt restoration on anything old and rare but 1,000s of people do it,

just use a bit of savy and keep your ear to the ground i bet i could fine 2 by the end of the week, but then i wouldnt bother ringing dial a part or any of that nonsense,

The bottom end needs to be F7R and for that it will comes from a williams, early megan 2.0 16v or a spyder, now think of all the racing spyders that there "used" to be, thats where i would focus my attention, one person has already sourced a few and sold them on this site, those engines were one of many,

but i must say had i not found the cheap willy engine i was very keen on going for the de-stroked techy 1.8 F7 engine, cheap as chips, get a R19 unit for £100 and take your time, Bens makes 170+BHP thats plenty in a clio for all but the hardened clio nut

but nothing is cheap, but its money well spent for a unique car,

look at the CTR is a 2ltr 4 pot like so many engines but the detail of the engine is an absolute work of art, but then there is nothing there that cannot be done to our F7Rs and F7Ps with the exception of VVT but according to the captain it basicaly just give a smoother idle with lumpy cams, i can live with a lumpy idle when you think of the money you save on a CTR price,

i recomend speaking to harlow motorsport, the did most of the race preping of the various renault "Cup" race series, what they dont know about tuning the F7 engines surely isnt worth knowing

 

[maciek]

I think that in poland there were not more than 1000 F7R engines... it is not easy to find anything... but i am putting some effort to find something...

the same goes with g.box... if one from renault costs half of my whole car? and ~3 average Polish monthly incomes? then I need to find something else. after calls to many used parts shops i managed to find ONE box for 19 TD (JB3 028) nothing else... nothing from meg 2.0 16v nothing from valver (not mentioning willy).

Its pure stroke of luck if I find something interesting to my valver

anyway now its head time... cams and so on.

no one has Idea IF or WHAT to do with throttle?

 

[Nick Read]

Heres a plan Maciek. Come to the UK and buy the stuff you need then back to Poland. Think of it as a nice holiday.

 

[maciek]

i would like to - next summer maybe the second thing is that everything is not as cheap in UK as here. things on scrappies and so on are far cheaper than in UK, but theres nothing to find

Today I got my clio back! yeyeye ! the box is not as good as previous one, but it works !

no ideas on throttle?

 

[Ben H]

Maciek - the 19 TD gearbox is the same as used in the Williams!

 

[maciek]

is it? its not i guess... it has slightly different casing hasn;t it?

the gearing may be the same though. but as i noticed in other topic it seems funny - having shorter 1 and 2 while 4 and 5 are significantly longer...

You mean that JB3 028 is for williams???

 

[BenR]

um, what the hell is goin on here...like 5 diff discussions!? LOL

what throttle what? i thought i wa 2ltr and cams, and thsi gearbox stuff? haha../.

 

[maciek]

sorry... just didnt want to put another topic. it was wrong

I got my car back two days ago after gbox problem... and my 2nd gear redlines at about 50 mph :-o... Im sharing my hapiness with You... sorry for that

I already have cams and pulleys waiting for the head to be done... then when some money comes there will go piggeback.

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by maciek on 06 December 2002


sorry... just didnt want to put another topic. it was wrong

I got my car back two days ago after gbox problem... and my 2nd gear redlines at about 50 mph :-o... Im sharing my hapiness with You... sorry for that

I already have cams and pulleys waiting for the head to be done... then when some money comes there will go piggeback.

haha, sorry amte, i think i came across wrong, i meant i was lost in teh threads, i didnt know which one was to what coment etc.......didnt know your bearbox was on the way out.