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What's Japanese, rally inspired, turbocharged, AWD, 1250 kgs with mechanical diffs on both axles?



plenty

ClioSport Club Member
23 years before the Yaris GR, this was built.

Had a couple of classic RAs before, a JDM blob and JDM hawk before moving on to other cars including my Clio and my Megane, but it seems I can't resist a nice Subaru.

This one was competed successfully in UK sprints and was only registered for the road in July 2020. The shell is mint and it has a distinctive spec including the DCCD (centre diff) transmission from a v6 Type RA V-Limited and a built 2.1 motor. It's a proper Q-car, unassuming to look despite being a bit of a weapon.

Inked122838846_10164812279625160_5547166398956443108_n_LI.jpg


Inked122870011_10164812279425160_205597280447533457_n_LI.jpg
 

McGherkin

Macca fan boiiiii
ClioSport Club Member
Bloody lovely. DCCD Imprezas are so unlike most cars to drive, completely dispels the myth that all AWDs are boring. And classics are probably the best of the lot considering how light they are.
 

plenty

ClioSport Club Member
Thank you chaps! I knew this would be an appreciative audience.

The car arrived in the UK on my birthday in 2016. It then competed in the 22b/MLR (later renamed Whiteline Subaru) sprint series each year until 2019. I'm not a track driver myself though - the car will now be enjoyed on the road.

The car is a proper Trigger's broom. The shell is from a 1997 v3 STi. The running gear, dashboard and DCCD clocks from a v6 Type-RA V-Limited were fitted in Japan. This was the selling point of the car as DCCD-equipped classics are now hard to source and pricey. The v6 RA transmission is the one to have, as it comes with a helical front diff.

In 2018 the EJ205 dropped a valve at Curborough and was rebuilt by Engine Tuner as a 2.1 with the usual forged rods and pistons, race bearings and ARP head studs, as well as a lightened flywheel and Competition Clutch Stage 4 paddle clutch.

The turbo is a VF48 fed by a Lateral FMIC and controlled by an Alcatek ECU with switchable wet and dry maps. The latter offers 390/390; the engine is good for much more but the gearbox isn't. I'm not exactly left longing for more power as mated to the short ratios of the RA 'box it feels adequate :) Ironically, being a proper classic car it is cheaper to insure than my 182.

The car came with the Subaru IHI 4-pot calipers up front and 2-pots at the back. I've got a set of newage STi front Brembos being refurbed which will go on with braided lines and XP10s to ensure the car stops as well as it goes.

Suspension is via a set of Bilstein B16 PSS9s and the car has had the Whiteline kit thrown at it including big ARBs, anti-lift kit, bump-steer correction ball joints, Max-C adjustable front top mounts, camber bolts front and rear and rear subframe lock bolts. It also has an STi front strut brace, Cusco lower front brace and Cusco rear tower brace.

It was set up by Chevron Motorsport for the track and for my purposes (B-road blasting) is too stiff. First job is to ditch the big ARBs and replace them with OEM items. If that still doesn't give the compliance I am looking for I'll replace the coilovers with P1 springs and Excel-B struts. I have experience of the latter setup from my previous classics and know how good it is on a British country lane.

Finally the newage STi wheels came shod with track tyres which have been sold and replaced with PS4s.

Here's a photo from when the car landed in the UK, with looks only a mother could love:

image.jpeg


And from its sprinting days:

D9B198F4-341F-4E44-9C09-21F884315024.png
 
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Donny_Dog

ClioSport Club Member
  Jim's rejects
Mega, glad there are some people who know a thing or two about Imprezas. More photos needed!
 

massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
Lovely that. Love a classic Impreza.

I wouldn't go straight for removing the bigger roll bars personally. Better to look at the springs/dampers first. A set of softer springs would probably go a long way to sorting it.
 

Not a Diesel!!!

ClioSport Club Member
  LY Meg Cup-S + MX5
That's the shocking thing when you see or hear an old impreza.

You have no idea is its some +300bhp/tonne weapon or not.
 

plenty

ClioSport Club Member
Thanks everyone! Feeling the love.

So does it have a 93 plate?
It's a P reg.
I wouldn't go straight for removing the bigger roll bars personally. Better to look at the springs/dampers first. A set of softer springs would probably go a long way to sorting it.
Great for track, but fat roll bars don't work on the road, at least for me. I've tried a lot of setups on different Imprezas over the years and they are always better on the road with smaller bars imo. Of course you do need a compliant spring as well...the Prodrive-developed P1 spring is excellent.
Spot on, needs period wheels for me but its lovely.
I can't run 16s with Brembos. A set of 17" Revolution Millenniums is in the pipeline!
 
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massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
Great for track, but fat roll bars don't work on the road, at least for me. I've tried a lot of setups on different Imprezas over the years and they are always better on the road with smaller bars imo. Of course you do need a compliant spring as well...the Prodrive-developed P1 spring is excellent.

I suspect that's due to a bit of a mismatch of components in a lot of cases. Most aftermarket suspension is far too stiff for road use, not to mention often being of questionable quality. While anti-roll bars obviously influence ride quality, it's better in my view to tune ride with springs and dampers, as that's going straight for the root of the issue. Can be expensive of course, but means you get to benefit from the increased roll stiffness too at least!
 

plenty

ClioSport Club Member
I suspect that's due to a bit of a mismatch of components in a lot of cases. Most aftermarket suspension is far too stiff for road use, not to mention often being of questionable quality. While anti-roll bars obviously influence ride quality, it's better in my view to tune ride with springs and dampers, as that's going straight for the root of the issue. Can be expensive of course, but means you get to benefit from the increased roll stiffness too at least!
I do agree that most coilovers aren’t suited for the road. But neither are big roll bars, as even with soft springs big bars don't work on bumpy country roads where the upside of increased roll stiffness is far outweighed by the downside of reducing independent wheel movement.

The springs on the PSS9s are actually not too stiff (7 kgs front 4.5 kgs rear), but if I still don't get the desired compliance after downsizing the bars, then the next step is to bin them for struts and P1 springs.

Isn't that 96? I thought 93 was L?
It's a '97.

390/390 must feel mental in this especially with DCCD dialled to the rear
So far the only driving I've done is the journey home from buying it as it's currently up on stands waiting for Brembos to come back from being refurbed, but yes, it's rather brisk :)
 
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massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
Totally agree with this. But the first step if as in my case a car is fitted with big non OEM bars designed for smooth tracks, is to ditch those immediately as even with soft springs big bars don't work on bumpy country roads where the upside of increased roll stiffness is far outweighed by the downside of reducing independent wheel movement.

How much thicker are the aftermarket roll bars out of interest? I wouldn't agree that thick bars are necessarily problematic on bumpy roads, as large ARBs are commonplace on tarmac rally cars, as they allow you to prevent excess roll, while letting the springs and dampers deal with the ride. The problem comes more from chucking coilovers and spherical top mounts at road cars, which usually just remove far too much compliance.

It's the opposite of something like a Clio Cup race car really. They were lumbered with the skinny factory roll bars, so ran ridiculous spring rates to control roll. That's not great practice in reality, but it was an acceptable compromise as they only ran on smooth surfaces. I can't remember who it was that told me, but I used to work with a few ex-Lotus guys and the view was always that you shouldn't use the springs and dampers to control roll, as their primary purpose is to control ride, so I would always argue that the same is true of using roll bars to control ride.

Ultimately it's your car, but I would definitely look into spring/damper options, as you might be able to find a nicer compromise. It's just a shame that most off-the-shelf coilovers are far too stiff for the road, but any manufacturer worth their salt should be able to build you something that works.

Anyway, I'll stop wittering - it's a lovely car!
 

plenty

ClioSport Club Member
Thanks! I totally agree that for the road you need the softest springs you can get away with. I’m also.a firm believer that you also need the thinnest bars you can get away with.

My latest car as above came with 22F/24R Whiteline bars compared with 19F/20R OEM which I am reverting to. I’m more than happy to trade an increase in body roll for superior wheel articulation on B-roads.

This isn’t experimentation...it’s a well-trodden path with proven results. I’ve spent a lot of time trying different setups on Imprezas and have spoken at length with Prodrive’s chassis engineer who did the P1 and RB320, and have concluded that regardless of the spring/damper setup, overly stiff roll bars ruin their handling on the road.

This thread is a good discussion on the topic (and includes a post from me from 2015 documenting the benefits of downsizing the ARBs in a blobeye I owned at the time): https://www.scoobynet.com/suspension-12/1016983-bigger-roll-bars-and-uk-roads.html
 
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Not a Diesel!!!

ClioSport Club Member
  LY Meg Cup-S + MX5
Interesting I have a 2005 Widetrack on 60k. Completely std.

But I thought it may be time for a suspension refresh at 15 years old. But not interested in lower it just want some fresh std stuff. Any thoughts? Is it just OEM?

I moved from am E30 M3 back in early noughties to a P1. Those cars were similar weight. But a P1 with std power/torque in its day was ballistic compared to contemporary metal. Blob is a good bit heavier still feels rapid on boost. But 'normal' cars are pretty brisk these days. ie compare a 2000 320d to a 2020 320d which would be faster than the E30 mentioned above.

Cant imagine P1 with 30% more power. less weight & shorter gearing.
 

plenty

ClioSport Club Member
Interesting I have a 2005 Widetrack on 60k. Completely std.

But I thought it may be time for a suspension refresh at 15 years old. But not interested in lower it just want some fresh std stuff. Any thoughts? Is it just OEM?

For my Hawkeye I ended up with basically the RB320 suspension: RB320 springs and RB320 19F/21 ARBs, RB320 front Bilsteins and (as I couldn't source rear Bilsteins) OEM KYB rear dampers with revised bump stops. It was very good in a variety of conditions albeit too soft on track (low priority for me). The RB320 setup is definitely better suited to UK roads than the standard widetrack suspension which hits the bump stops too easily on undulating surfaces at speed.

I'm a few years out of the loop so am not sure of the current availability situation for OEM or OEM spec widetrack parts. I'd suggest contacting Peter Cambridge of PCA Dynamics (P1 and RB320 suspension designer) who at least a few years ago was able to supply RB320 springs and bump stops. Also "2pot" on Scoobynet and Type-RA.com is worth talking to and may be able to supply springs. Dampers are tricky as the Bilsteins are like unicorns now and most front struts on sale don't fit the widetrack. It's possible that the OEM KYB struts are still available from Subaru. If pairing with RB320 springs you will need to replace the bump stops in the OEM struts as these are key to the RB320 suspension setup.

Alternatively, as a cost-effective and simpler solution you could consider the Pedders setup: https://pedders.co.uk/pedders-ezifi...lobeye-and-hawkeye-05-07-5-x-114-3-pcd-803049

Further info and reviews of Pedders here: https://www.scoobynet.com/1051421-thoughts-on-this-suspension-2.html
 
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Not a Diesel!!!

ClioSport Club Member
  LY Meg Cup-S + MX5
Thanks for that, I had done a search before, I had seen peddlers mentioned but I had not heard of them before.
 


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