Windows Vista

[Mike_182]

Ha!
She did say it would be ok to use Vista on a home pc, but most laptops (unless they're high-end ones) still struggle with it.
Yes you can get a Vista ready HP laptop form pcworld for less than £400, but would you really want to wait 6 months for it to boot up?

Vista is definitely seen as a disaster within the commercial industry. Not least because most of the 3rd party commercial apps that worked fine with ME/2000/XP need fixes for Vista & Microsoft haven't helped by blocking some of them & not developing the fixes.

Tell her to take her head out of her (or your) anus then. I installed it on a Samsung Netbook running Intel's Atom (1.6GHz single core) and 945GM chipset and you know what? It works. Fine. Even using Aero/Glass. You know why? Because I put enough memory in it.

You wouldn't run SQL on a Dell PE1650 with a gig of RAM... Buy hardware that is applicable. You can indeed run Vista just fine on a £400 laptop - in fact we get Dell Vostro laptops at about £300, and they come with Vista and it actually pains me to remove it and put XP on as it works great.

As for enterprises not using it, you've got the wrong end of the stick. They haven't started using it as to get the control of Vista that you need in a domain environment ideally you need to upgrade your Active Directory to 2008. That's why I said to management that yes, Vista is great, but no, we should wait until W7 to come out (along with it's server counterpart) before we start using the several hundred licences we've got for it.

In the IT industry, it isn't all about the client software. Tell your jumped-up helpdesk ho that and she'll maybe start understanding the infrastructure and get a job fixing problems instead of logging problems.

It's amazing. It's like the coffee-fetching PA's putting down that they have management experience because they fetched the manager's coffee for 10 years.

 

[Mike_182]

It makes me laugh when people say you need a modern PC. I have servers at home that would shudder and die if I installed vista on them. With linux on them they run super fast do exactly what I tell them too and never need rebooting..

Why should I spend more money on a 'modern' pc when my old PC's can do the same job.

What do you ask these servers to do though? You can't run a 500GB database on one of them - that'd make it shudder and die also. In fact, most machines that will run Vista just fine wouldn't run a 500GB database with any degree of performance.

It's all down to what you want the hardware to do. You install Vista on a games machine, you need a lot of power behind it as you do with any gaming machine - but a little more in the way of Graphics horsepower over XP as Vista will run your DX10 stuff. For browsing the internet, I can install Vista on a Dell Optiplex GX60 (they're 5 years old now) and it'll run it fine. You can't use Aero Glass or anything funky like that, but it'll go on the internet...

 

[Zygalski]

Tell her to take her head out of her (or your) anus then. I installed it on a Samsung Netbook running Intel's Atom (1.6GHz single core) and 945GM chipset and you know what? It works. Fine. Even using Aero/Glass. You know why? Because I put enough memory in it.

You wouldn't run SQL on a Dell PE1650 with a gig of RAM... Buy hardware that is applicable. You can indeed run Vista just fine on a £400 laptop - in fact we get Dell Vostro laptops at about £300, and they come with Vista and it actually pains me to remove it and put XP on as it works great.

As for enterprises not using it, you've got the wrong end of the stick. They haven't started using it as to get the control of Vista that you need in a domain environment ideally you need to upgrade your Active Directory to 2008. That's why I said to management that yes, Vista is great, but no, we should wait until W7 to come out (along with it's server counterpart) before we start using the several hundred licences we've got for it.

In the IT industry, it isn't all about the client software. Tell your jumped-up helpdesk ho that and she'll maybe start understanding the infrastructure and get a job fixing problems instead of logging problems.

It's amazing. It's like the coffee-fetching PA's putting down that they have management experience because they fetched the manager's coffee for 10 years.

I think she does know what she's talking about actually.
She's a senior project manager for an outsourcing IT company (technical consultant grade 4) & probably pays in tax what you clear in a month.

Your post just makes you seem like Bill Gates' gimp tbh.

 

[Daz]

Yay! Salary wars.. Awesome.

Altho either argument is useless, Vista Vs. * is better than My Girlfriends Salary Vs. *

 

[Zygalski]

Yay! Salary wars.. Awesome.

Altho either argument is useless, Vista Vs. * is better than My Girlfriends Salary Vs. *

Well if someone wants to pay her what they do & she doesn't know what she's doing then I guess that's up to them.

She does roll-outs for a living & the guy above^^^ is one of 7 people in the country who thinks Vista is any cop in a commercial sense.:rasp:

Edit:
To be fair she's just told me that there aren't nearly as many problems as there used to be with Vista roll-out.

 

[KDF]

I'll bet a small wager that most people moaning about Vista are only doing so because it's "cool" to do so. Likewise it's "trendy" to be different and big up Linux.

Sir, you owe me a small wager.




lol @ the salary wars now...

 

[Munson]

I love salary wars too. Great stuff. So knowledge is now directly related to salary? Have a word, obviously not had many career experiences yet?

Some of the highest earning people I've known in my jobs, have been utter gimps. Good at sucking c**k and stabbing people in the back does not equal techincal excellence.

TBH

 

[realnumber 1]

I love salary wars too. Great stuff. So knowledge is now directly related to salary? Have a word, obviously not had many career experiences yet?

Some of the highest earning people I've known in my jobs, have been utter gimps. Good at sucking c**k and stabbing people in the back does not equal techincal excellence.

TBH

PMSL:lolup: Not a truer word said.

 

[Mike_182]

I love salary wars too. Great stuff. So knowledge is now directly related to salary? Have a word, obviously not had many career experiences yet?

Some of the highest earning people I've known in my jobs, have been utter gimps. Good at sucking c**k and stabbing people in the back does not equal techincal excellence.

TBH

Thankyouplease, my friend.

All the people who are high up where I'm leaving are there because they suck dick. I've told them that, that's why I feel it best I leave before they ask me to!

 

[Zygalski]

Thankyouplease, my friend.

All the people who are high up where I'm leaving are there because they suck dick. I've told them that, that's why I feel it best I leave before they ask me to!

Don't - you'll make her cry.



All the way to the bank.


Lots of people who are dead wood are getting chucked out of IT jobs ATM. In the current economic climate it's all the excuse these companies need & they can be rather ruthless.
My g/f just keeps getting the removed PM's projects dumped on her. She works very hard for her money. Shame some of the blokes who got the sack didn't have her work ethic.

 

[Dip]

Well said Munson, A couple of guys from work have vanished, who IMO didn't do much, apart from sit and drink tea. Took them a whole 2 days to find out what RAM my desktop took!

 

[Scottydog]

Don't - you'll make her cry.



All the way to the bank.


Lots of people who are dead wood are getting chucked out of IT jobs ATM. In the current economic climate it's all the excuse these companies need & they can be rather ruthless.
My g/f just keeps getting the removed PM's projects dumped on her. She works very hard for her money. Shame some of the blokes who got the sack didn't have her work ethic.

Too right.

Both of the IT Predecessors at my place got made redundant (golden hand shake - glorified sacking really) for not keeping up with the times in terms of hardware and software and generally taking the piss, being caught red handed nicking computers or selling them on to friends on the side! LOL

A new IT Manager was appointed immediately and consequently I moved into IT after the second one was kicked and my colleague was appointed.

You have to keep with it in IT, dead wood is thrown over the bridge very quickly.

 

[Munson]

Don't - you'll make her cry.



All the way to the bank.

I thought this thread was about Vista, not how much your bird earns. Good for her. No one cares

 

[lewisniven]

Vista is better than XP in every way, easier to use, more intuative.

99% of the so called bugs were ironed out over a year ago.

On a well specced PC Vista WILL be faster than XP.

And more stable.

And far more secure, easily. (I run a hardware firewall and no software firewall/anitvirus apart from Vista defaults and never have any problems, at all.

Vista x64 is far better supported than XP x64 (I run 4gb RAM)

Vistas hardware support is much better than XP's now.



Need I go on? tbh most of the cons people come up with are stupid things that have been fixed months ago, or issues that are easily fixed with a quick google.

msconfig.exe is the best kept secret in windows history, the world is divided into people who know how to use is, and those who dont.

 

[Mike_182]

Vista is better than XP in every way, easier to use, more intuative.

Very true if you can 'forget' how to work XP. The issue is with people who assume it's just a 'pretty' XP, not a complete change of layout. Remember all the fuss from Windows 3.1/3.11fW moving to Windows 95? If you knew how to work 3.1/3.11fW then you had no idea where anything was in Windows 95. Starting from scratch, it was pretty easy!

99% of the so called bugs were ironed out over a year ago.

Easily - the biggest gripe was an issue with 4GB RAM, Vista x86-64 and specific disk controllers. This was very quickly ironed out by Microsoft, and with the advent of SP1 ALL the 'niggles' were removed.

On a well specced PC Vista WILL be faster than XP.

Depending on what you want it to be faster at, but yes, Vista is much more effective with it's allocation of RAM.

And more stable.

Also true. Vista can recover from various driver crashes which in XP typically resulted in a bluescreen.

And far more secure, easily. (I run a hardware firewall and no software firewall/anitvirus apart from Vista defaults and never have any problems, at all.

Yep. UAC is the best invention ever. Fact. Your average 'pub expert' may sit there and say how it's better to turn it off because he's sick of having to confirm breathing, but when you've installed everything you need to it's excellent at making sure you know exactly what is doing what to your system...

Vista x64 is far better supported than XP x64 (I run 4gb RAM)

Definately - although with 4GB RAM I'd be running x86 as the overheads for x86-64 are higher.

Vistas hardware support is much better than XP's now.

This is a fair statement - it's only very old legacy devices that don't get support now - even if it's a Microsoft-provided driver...

Need I go on? tbh most of the cons people come up with are stupid things that have been fixed months ago, or issues that are easily fixed with a quick google.

Yup. But then that's the nature of the pub expert. He hears things, he tells people things. Makes my life easier as I get silly money to wander in and correct him, but it's not the point...

msconfig.exe is the best kept secret in windows history, the world is divided into people who know how to use is, and those who dont.

Prefer Autoruns (and the rest of the Sysinternals suite) but MSConfig is fairly useful also...

 

[Mike_182]

I thought this thread was about Vista, not how much your bird earns. Good for her. No one cares

High five.

 

[@Spoonie]

End of the day Vista comes with more functionality. This extra functionality comes at a cost, system resource. If you want it to run quicker upgrade your machine or turn some of it off.

The Vista kernel is faster than XP's due to changes around thread scheduling, memory managerment etc. Its also more secure due to some of the short coming in the design of the original kernel being changed and UAC (I know people hate it but a typical user will rarely be impacted day-to-day).

 

[@Spoonie]

Edit:
To be fair she's just told me that there aren't nearly as many problems as there used to be with Vista roll-out.

Tell her to go back 10 years and deploy 1000 NT4 wrokstations over a weekend. She would then have something to complain about.

 

[Michael172]

Flaming.


What would old Tom say if he saw this ?



Daz was right though, personal preference.

 

[Zygalski]

High five.

Ok then smartass. If Vista's such an unqualified success then why is commercial takeup so poor?
2 years since launch & I'd be amazed if more than 25% of businesses have been Visterized.
All half-decent IT staff are telling their clients to wait for W7 & even then perhaps wait until the service pack comes out to fix the inevitable initial problems.

The other point I made was that Vista was fine on a home pc - the only prob is with a budget laptop. Hardly Earth-shattering news!

 

[Mike_182]

Ok then smartass. If Vista's such an unqualified success then why is commercial takeup so poor?
2 years since launch & I'd be amazed if more than 25% of businesses have been Visterized.
All half-decent IT staff are telling their clients to wait for W7 & even then perhaps wait until the service pack comes out to fix the inevitable initial problems.

The other point I made was that Vista was fine on a home pc - the only prob is with a budget laptop. Hardly Earth-shattering news!

Because W7 is only around the corner now, so the companies who were contemplating it are postponing to see what W7 brings to the table. Also consider user training. Their current userbase is familiar with XP. Why would they incur costs in training ALL of their staff (not just support) on the new platform if the probability was that W7 may bring something even more radical to the table.

Then there's the licencing costs. Why buy Vista licences when in just over a year's time you can buy W7 licences and use Vista if you think that it would be more appropriate? Our entire server room has a Windows Server 2008 licence, but we run 2003 as that's what our userbase would be familiar with in a TS environment, it's what our Software suppliers say that they'll support and it's also what us as implementation and support staff are familiar with. We'd need to go on 2008 courses to get the most out of it, and only last year having had several 2003 courses that's not on the cards for at least a year. At which point they'll probably pitch us at W7 courses.

Your bird is evidently s**t at her job if she cannot explain this to you. To sum up in dummy-speak for you both - Organisations only upgrade every OTHER operating system typically, due to the massive costs involved in upgrading that many computers which may/may not also require hardware upgrades to do this. As 2003 and XP were such a massive step forward from Windows 2000 in every conceivable way, just about everybody made that switch.

Why do you think Server 2008 had so little buzz about it's release, and how it's had such small development costs compared to 2003...

 

[Zygalski]

...As 2003 and XP were such a massive step forward from Windows 2000 in every conceivable way, just about everybody made that switch...

So you accept that Vista is a step sideways at best.
Ok thanks for that. We finally agree, friend

 

[Zygalski]

...Your bird is evidently s**t at her job if she cannot explain this to you...

You mention her again.
Are you obsessed or something?

ps
jealousy will get you nowhere
:rasp:

 

[Zygalski]

...All the people who are high up where I'm leaving are there because they suck dick. I've told them that, that's why I feel it best I leave before they ask me to!

Did he fall or was he pushed, ladies & gentlemen???
Judging by your apparent sexism & inability to accept that someone may know more than you my guess is the latter.
Have a Happy New year.
Hope the new job goes well & you don't end up as 1 of the 3m+ unemployed in 2009.
I know you won't take my advice, but it would be to keep your trap shut & your head down.

 

[MarkCup]

We bought a new Dell PC 6 months ago that came pre-loaded with Vista, and I can't fault it.

I'd heard all the hate, but gave it a go, and from a basic home-user's perspective...I can see no problem with it whatsoever.

Everything I used to be able to do, I can still find and do with no problems. The interface is intuitive, setting it up on our home network was simple and there's not a single thing I've found that's worse on Vista than on any previous incarnation of Windows (yet there is soooooo much that's improved).

It's stable (not had to do a random re-boot once yet), helpful, and f***ing quick.

On that basis I'd say it was a step forwards without question.

What Mike is saying makes absolute commercial/common sense to me; why on earth would I go to the expense/hassle of upgrading our entire business OS if it's currently secure, stable, and also when a further developed OS is just around the corner?

 

[Zygalski]

We bought a new Dell PC 6 months ago that came pre-loaded with Vista, and I can't fault it.

I'd heard all the hate, but gave it a go, and from a basic home-user's perspective...I can see no problem with it whatsoever.

Everything I used to be able to do, I can still find and do with no problems. The interface is intuitive, setting it up on our home network was simple and there's not a single thing I've found that's worse on Vista than on any previous incarnation of Windows (yet there is soooooo much that's improved).

It's stable (not had to do a random re-boot once yet), helpful, and f***ing quick.

On that basis I'd say it was a step forwards without question.

What Mike is saying makes absolute commercial/common sense to me; why on earth would I go to the expense/hassle of upgrading our entire business OS if it's currently secure, stable, and also when a further developed OS is just around the corner?

What spec is the laptop?

 

[Munson]

^^who carers? Probably skulltrail with 12 gfx cards. That's all that will run Vista, right? lol joker.

My dad's bigger than your dad

 

[Munson]

By the way, I know your bird is too rich to mix with the CS poverty gang, but since she's the IT genius, it's probably best if you leave it to her. You seem to know nothing about any of this, except how to gloat about how much money someone else earns. LoL what a gold plated penis

 

[MarkCup]

What spec is the laptop?

It's a desktop;

Intel® Core™ 2 Quad-Core Q6600 Processor (2.40GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 8MB cache) - running 4GB RAM

 

[Munson]

Pretty good spec there Mark. Does the Dell BIOS allow any overclocking? That processor should easily run at 3GHz+ with one hand on the wheel

 

[MarkCup]

That was just noise Roy, I've no idea what you're even asking me.

What I do know is that I specced it to be as future-proof as possible, and at the moment it handles everything I can throw at it with ease.

 

[Mike_182]

So you accept that Vista is a step sideways at best.
Ok thanks for that. We finally agree, friend

No, and I'm not your friend. Vista is a step forward, but everything about 2003 was a massive improvement on 2000 - Exchange and Active Directory took a colossal leap forward.

Vista is an improvement, but for 2008 it's only really an improvement in manageability of Vista clients.

 

[Mike_182]

You mention her again.
Are you obsessed or something?

ps
jealousy will get you nowhere
:rasp:

No, I'm quite happy where I am thanks. Got a comfortable existance and am very happy with my other half. Wouldn't change her the world...

 

[Mike_182]

Did he fall or was he pushed, ladies & gentlemen???
Judging by your apparent sexism & inability to accept that someone may know more than you my guess is the latter.
Have a Happy New year.
Hope the new job goes well & you don't end up as 1 of the 3m+ unemployed in 2009.
I know you won't take my advice, but it would be to keep your trap shut & your head down.

Sexism? Where did you find that? And I left - handed in my notice, and a couple of days later told my manager exactly why I was leaving...

 

[Mike_182]

That was just noise Roy, I've no idea what you're even asking me.

What I do know is that I specced it to be as future-proof as possible, and at the moment it handles everything I can throw at it with ease.

Unless it's an XPS, I don't think they get options for changing clock speeds etc. Shouldn't need to really for the forseeable future anyway - got the 2.4GHz Quad Core in both my home machines, and they're fine.

 

[Daz]

Oh, BTW, Vista is s**t.

































Actually, it's not.. but damnit, this thread isn't going to end, ever. :rasp:
I'm going to be bumping it for months.

 

[Mike_182]

I'm going to be bumping it for months.

Wooo!! Free first bump.

I'm sat on my terribly shite Vista machine now... It's at least a year old, so god help it.

*Note - except the graphics cards. I swapped the single 8800GTX for two 9600GTs for the hell of it.

 

[Daz]

I'm sat on my terribly s**te Vista machine now...

There's no such thing!!11oneone!1eleven1!

 

[Mike_182]

There's no such thing!!11oneone!1eleven1!

OMGLOL there so is! I'm on it now man!!!11111one! Linux FTFFW!

 

[Mike_182]

Is Christmas not over yet btw? Sort the theme out!