Proof that vista is a dogs dinner

[@Spoonie]

Also the server market is dominated by linux and unix..

Depends on how you define dominated, Windows overtook Unix in terms of sales last Feb according to a report from IDC with Linux is making large strides also.

and server systems with static IP's are the ones that get targeted for attack the most.. but its always the windows servers going down quicker than the titanic lol

Very rare for major companies to lose a server due to hacking whether Linux, Unix or Windows based. This isn't the 80's.

 

[dk]

oh and the reason there are so many security flaws found in windows is because its the most popular operating system so people are trying to bring it down and as so many people are using it they can attack so many more people, why would anyone want to find a security flaw in linux, if they implemented an attack they wouldn't get as mnay hits as compared to windows very few people are using it.

The biggest player will always get hit the most.

Not true in the slightest.. the entire OS design (based of a 35 year old unix os) is inherintly more secure by design. I wont go into specifics as its a far too boring read but trust me when I say it is !

Also the server market is dominated by linux and unix.. and server systems with static IP's are the ones that get targeted for attack the most.. but its always the windows servers going down quicker than the titanic lol

i beg to differ, I am selling to large UK companies all day every day and my consultancy is all server and storage based I am NEVER asked for linux or unix these days, its all about windows and VMware on blade servers i'm afraid, or 1U servers with 2 quad core processors in, the world is changing, blades with vmware and windows is where its at, most processing power per U, and windows on integrity ocassionally.

I know you will say something about vmware being based on linux etc, well, i suppose it has to feature somewhere

 

[ViolentJ]

lol, I've used it for a fair few years, it's just recently I've made a full switch.

I hardly think highlighting an alternative is spouting rubbish. I think being so narrow minded people cant appreciate an alternative is rubbish.

Fair play to you. I am not narrow minded like that.

@Violent, stop with this MS is rubbish, because purely and simply it isn't. If it wasn't for them, you probably wouldn't know how to use a computer. If for the first time you used a computer, you used linux, you would be like "ehh whats this crap?!?!".

Anyway I know whats good and whats bad, I'm no novice with these things, I regularly use auditor and backtrack to test systems security and to backup files easier. I agree that linux is good, yes it gets down to business and it does what you want it to do and doesnt have any of these little extra's that hurt your cpu. But then again I don't go round hating microsoft for making a supposedly bad operating system?(not pointed at mells)

I don't hate MS but I know Windows is shite, I used it long enough.

I didn't learn to use a computer with MS products, I learnt with Amiga Workbench and then my first MS product was DOS. I wasn't born into the spoon feeding generation.

My other half isn't very computer literate but even she is using Linux now after asking me to install it for her of her own accord. She was sick of experiencing the same old problems everyday and saw that I didn't have these problems. She's been using it for at least 7 months and would not go back to Windows.

If for the first time you used a computer, you used linux, you would be like "ehh whats this crap?!?!".

That is such a s**t statement. It's like me saying that someone using XP for the first time would say the same thing... except they probably would seeing as how it looks like it was designed for a child.

I feel sorry for die hard windows users who sound like they would fight to the death for MS. It's blind loyalty which is why Windows still comes pre-installed on the majority of machines. It may be shite but for the majority of people it's all they know so it will continue to be a success.

 

[Munson]

I feel sorry for die hard windows users who sound like they would fight to the death for MS.

I think you are missing the point. Is there really such a thing as a die hard Windows user? All I really hear from Windows users is that they don't have an issue with it, and they have more important things in their life than worrying about operating systems. Check email. Play F.E.A.R. for half hour, 40 minutes. w**k. Pub. Bed. Sorted.

Most of us couldn't care less. It's fine that other people do, but just don't expect anyone else to care IMO

 

[ViolentJ]

Fair enough if you don't care. Some people spend more time on their PC than others.

 

[Munson]

Fair enough if you don't care. Some people spend more time on their PC than others.

I wouldn't actually say I don't care, as such. I spend a great deal of my time on various computers, all of which run Windows. I use Windows for personal and professional use, and I never have issues with it.

Professionally I use FTP Voyager & UltraEdit32 all day long. I hibernate my machine and have not rebooted in weeks. Every day it just works, no problems, never misses a beat. What's not to like? (for my uses)

 

[Lagerlout]

Spot on Roy. I surf the net, download a bit of stuff, burn discs, f**k about with PS and a bit of video editing. Never had a problem. My PC very rarely gets' turned off either.

Although my new PC has come 'Vista ready' the MS site has told me I need to uninstall half of my programs and download updated drivers for half of my hardware if I wish to upgrade. lol.

 

[Munson]

^We will have to stop agreeing

 

[dk]

all our servers at work are windows and they never miss a beat either, solid as a rock, its all the other sh1t you put on them that does things.

ALso, the security thing, our windows servers never need to worry about getting attacked as we have a great security system to get past before they even get to see a windows server, thats what its all about, great front security and then it doesn't matter what you are running behind it if they can't get to them!

 

[spirez]

Unix sucks, such an awkward interface.

 

[@Spoonie]

One of the main problems with Windows is due to its popularity. My mother-in-law is forever having problems with Windows, slow down, popups, IE crashes. This is nothing to do with the O/S its completely her own doing, she downloads games from random sites, most of which are loaded with spyware and search toolbars. If linux ever hits mainstream it will no doubt suffer the same issues as spyware writers start to target it and more.

Those people that understand an operating system and the risks involved in downloading freeware and installing new drivers will rarely see problems whether on Linux or Windows.

I think this debate could go on forever, but one thing I do believe is there a snobbery amongst Linux/Unix users when it comes to Windows and this is one of the reasons these operating systems aren't doing as well as their potential.

 

[KDF]

One of the main problems with Windows is due to its popularity. My mother-in-law is forever having problems with Windows, slow down, popups, IE crashes. This is nothing to do with the O/S its completely her own doing, she downloads games from random sites, most of which are loaded with spyware and search toolbars. If linux ever hits mainstream it will no doubt suffer the same issues as spyware writers start to target it and more.

Those people that understand an operating system and the risks involved in downloading freeware and installing new drivers will rarely see problems whether on Linux or Windows.

I think this debate could go on forever, but one thing I do believe is there a snobbery amongst Linux/Unix users when it comes to Windows and this is one of the reasons these operating systems aren't doing as well as their potential.

Again you shouldnt make such sweeping statements when you dont know how it works.. as I said in a previous post linux is inherintly more secure by design. Viruses cant affect system files in linux like they do in windows. I dont want to get boring or anything, but it just doesnt work that way.. worst case scenario the users home folder would need rebuilt.. which would be a 2 min job.

RE people not knowing better in linux and windows.. you cant just open an executable file in linux, you would have to be technically adept enough to be able to even make a file and executable.

I dont know if I would call it snobbery. I just think that such people are better informed about the differences and in their mind they dont see why anyone would want to use an inferior OS. Don't bother me, I just hate it when the windows boys start saying things like 'linux would get just as many viruses and spyware if it was as common as windows' without knowing anything about the OS's design. If they did they wouldnt make such statements.

What I will say is linux has gone from and elitist only OS to a growing user base, even old computer illeterate people are using and working on it. You dont have be be a whiz to use it anymore.

 

[KDF]

Unix sucks, such an awkward interface.

Its only awkward if your used to clicking a start button.

 

[sh33n]

i look at vista and think "bloody hell cant windows invent there own thing instead of nicking ideas from mac and linux" not very impressed at all

Can't Apple come up with their own ideas and not nick them of other people as well? :rasp:

 

[spirez]

Unix sucks, such an awkward interface.

Its only awkward if your used to clicking a start button.

Even the file structure sucks in my opinion. The CAD computers at work have thousands of files on them and it's poor compared to other OSs.

 

[dk]

whether we like it or not, both OS's dominate our lives and we come in contact with them in our daily lives all the time!

 

[Mells]

Well. If you were a man with just a PC and no software AND no money, what software would you use?

A) Pirated copy of MS Windows/Office etc

B) Completely free Linux based operating system with free apps etc

? Call me mad, but this is happening everyday. True people will use pirated software if you cant afford to buy it, but in the developing world more and more people are using Linux (See One Laptop Per Child project - http://www.laptop.org/ )

See how MS ran away when wanting a fee for such a project, just like they rip off charities with cheep initial software and expensive service agreements..

 

[rich[182]]

Unix/Linux is inherrently more secure than any Windows O/S but in my experience at work and for home use most problems when using Windows is generally down to people who dont know their arse from their elbow, they download & install demos, freeware, shareware, try all kind of crap, never ever update drivers, firmware, dont use or update spyware or virus apps etc,etc

Im no expert but in 2 yrs of running XP pro Ive never had a prob, strict with what i install, always apply security fixes, bugfixes, firmware, drivers, spyware & firmware upto date, always properly uninstall software, run registry cleaners, flush out index.dat etc,etc

never missed a beat, im always bailing neighbours out who simply dont listen to advice, just do stuff without thinking or are generally lapse with security and being methodic on how they go about stuff

 

[Clellandmc]

Well. If you were a man with just a PC and no software AND no money, what software would you use?

A) Pirated copy of MS Windows/Office etc

B) Completely free Linux based operating system with free apps etc

? Call me mad, but this is happening everyday. True people will use pirated software if you cant afford to buy it, but in the developing world more and more people are using Linux (See One Laptop Per Child project - http://www.laptop.org/ )

See how MS ran away when wanting a fee for such a project, just like they rip off charities with cheep initial software and expensive service agreements..

I don't think it would be great publicity for them though if they were to distribute the laptops with a pirate copy of Windows on though huh?

 

[Clellandmc]

Unix/Linux is inherrently more secure than any Windows O/S but in my experience at work and for home use most problems when using Windows is generally down to people who dont know their arse from their elbow, they download & install demos, freeware, shareware, try all kind of crap, never ever update drivers, firmware, dont use or update spyware or virus apps etc,etc

Im no expert but in 2 yrs of running XP pro Ive never had a prob, strict with what i install, always apply security fixes, bugfixes, firmware, drivers, spyware & firmware upto date, always properly uninstall software, run registry cleaners, flush out index.dat etc,etc

never missed a beat, im always bailing neighbours out who simply dont listen to advice, just do stuff without thinking or are generally lapse with security and being methodic on how they go about stuff

Completely agree, if people know what they are doing, Windows is fine.

Linux will have to change it's ways to get into the home market, as there is no chance that you will find the average user using the command line.

 

[Mells]

Unix/Linux is inherrently more secure than any Windows O/S but in my experience at work and for home use most problems when using Windows is generally down to people who dont know their arse from their elbow, they download & install demos, freeware, shareware, try all kind of crap, never ever update drivers, firmware, dont use or update spyware or virus apps etc,etc

Im no expert but in 2 yrs of running XP pro Ive never had a prob, strict with what i install, always apply security fixes, bugfixes, firmware, drivers, spyware & firmware upto date, always properly uninstall software, run registry cleaners, flush out index.dat etc,etc

never missed a beat, im always bailing neighbours out who simply dont listen to advice, just do stuff without thinking or are generally lapse with security and being methodic on how they go about stuff

Completely agree, if people know what they are doing, Windows is fine.

Linux will have to change it's ways to get into the home market, as there is no chance that you will find the average user using the command line.

Have you actually used a recent linux os? Yes you can use the command prompt, but most things are installed through an installer. In ubuntu they give you an installer you can install hundered bits of free software, sort of a library type thing.

 

[Daz]

Depends on how you define dominated, Windows overtook Unix in terms of sales last Feb according to a report from IDC with Linux is making large strides also.

What about everyone who just downloaded a Debian CD, or an Ubuntu CD etc.. and installed it on their server? How do people know about those?

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html

As I've said before, for company networks (servers, clients, etc.) you can't beat a Windows domain setup.. it's superior in many ways to any other solution. That's my job - I'm a Network Consultant and 99.99% of it is Windows based.


But, in terms of "internet servers" - Windows has *A LOT* of work to do..
My personal servers all run Debian GNU/Linux, and they have done for about 7 years.

For home use - well, that's Apple's market isn't it? (Altho, I do use my Mac for home, work, everything work )

 

[Clellandmc]

Completely agree, if people know what they are doing, Windows is fine.

Linux will have to change it's ways to get into the home market, as there is no chance that you will find the average user using the command line.

Have you actually used a recent linux os? Yes you can use the command prompt, but most things are installed through an installer. In ubuntu they give you an installer you can install hundered bits of free software, sort of a library type thing.

I have actually, I have a dual boot on my laptop for the past year, and find some bits a right pain ie. the wireless networking. First of all my card doesn't work so I have to install ndiswrapper to then load a windows driver on and then it still doesn't allow me to easily connect to my WPA network.

Vista which I am using at the moment to type this picked it up straight away, which is what OS X does as well, although I do think it's a bit unfair playing field with Macs as they primarily only use Mac hardware therefore making it a lot easier to work for the programmers.

 

[BenWall]

Depends on how you define dominated, Windows overtook Unix in terms of sales last Feb according to a report from IDC with Linux is making large strides also.

What about everyone who just downloaded a Debian CD, or an Ubuntu CD etc.. and installed it on their server? How do people know about those?

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html

As I've said before, for company networks (servers, clients, etc.) you can't beat a Windows domain setup.. it's superior in many ways to any other solution. That's my job - I'm a Network Consultant and 99.99% of it is Windows based.


But, in terms of "internet servers" - Windows has *A LOT* of work to do..
My personal servers all run Debian GNU/Linux, and they have done for about 7 years.

For home use - well, that's Apple's market isn't it? (Altho, I do use my Mac for home, work, everything work )

I thought unix servers were better than windows servers. I learn somthing new everyday

 

[dk]

What about everyone who just downloaded a Debian CD, or an Ubuntu CD etc.. and installed it on their server? How do people know about those?

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html

As I've said before, for company networks (servers, clients, etc.) you can't beat a Windows domain setup.. it's superior in many ways to any other solution. That's my job - I'm a Network Consultant and 99.99% of it is Windows based.


But, in terms of "internet servers" - Windows has *A LOT* of work to do..
My personal servers all run Debian GNU/Linux, and they have done for about 7 years.

For home use - well, that's Apple's market isn't it? (Altho, I do use my Mac for home, work, everything work )

I thought unix servers were better than windows servers. I learn somthing new everyday

unix went out with the dinosaurs, its all about Itanium Processors running windows IA64!

 

[BenWall]

windows IA64? this sounds cool

 

[Daz]

windows IA64? this sounds cool

It's not

 

[dk]

windows IA64? this sounds cool

IA64 is the Itanium chip from Intel, HP are replacing all their legacy processors with the Itanium chip as it runs both windows (IA64 Itanium version) and Unix so its very versatile.

 

[@Spoonie]

One of the main problems with Windows is due to its popularity. My mother-in-law is forever having problems with Windows, slow down, popups, IE crashes. This is nothing to do with the O/S its completely her own doing, she downloads games from random sites, most of which are loaded with spyware and search toolbars. If linux ever hits mainstream it will no doubt suffer the same issues as spyware writers start to target it and more.

Those people that understand an operating system and the risks involved in downloading freeware and installing new drivers will rarely see problems whether on Linux or Windows.

I think this debate could go on forever, but one thing I do believe is there a snobbery amongst Linux/Unix users when it comes to Windows and this is one of the reasons these operating systems aren't doing as well as their potential.

Again you shouldnt make such sweeping statements when you dont know how it works.. as I said in a previous post linux is inherintly more secure by design.

What sweeping statement?

 

[rich[182]]

Completely agree, if people know what they are doing, Windows is fine.

Linux will have to change it's ways to get into the home market, as there is no chance that you will find the average user using the command line.

Have you actually used a recent linux os? Yes you can use the command prompt, but most things are installed through an installer. In ubuntu they give you an installer you can install hundered bits of free software, sort of a library type thing.

Not specifically but I do a lot on F5 Big-IP hardware load balancers which use TMOS which I think is some proprietary OS that is based on Unix (i think) It'd has hard as f**k, passes penetration testing and everything several security companies can throw at it, out of the box as well

 

[dk]

i think i used suse or redhat on a course last year and it was all nice and graphical though so they can't all be commant prompt and unuser friendly.

 

[Mike_182]

If you move to Vista now you are as good as a beta tester. Testing in public has always been the MS way.

Not just the MS way though is it?

Everyone's quick to jump on the 'its s**t' bandwagon, but nobody as yet has made an x86 OS that supports as much as it does. It's all good and well saying 'Get Linux, get Linux, it's better' but alot of hardware manufacturers don't release drivers officially for it because there's so many incompatible versions of Linux it's unreal. They know that if they release a Microsoft driver it works on XP systems, or Vista systems, or 2000 systems, rather than on only one version of a specific distribution of Linux.

There's a very small window now (because I agree, there are flaws in Vista - not to the extent Mr. Anti-Bill-Gates-cos-I-lost-my-job or something seems to want to imply) that someone big in Linux could establish some kind of foothold in the market, but when Vista settles in the opportunities gone.

Again, on another note he compares the whole interface to XP, saying it's just SP3 - Well, the XP interface works brilliantly, so why change it? The Start Search is great, I think he's just an idiot because there's a Search button a couple of inches out, and if they put a whole system search there on that automatic search (no search button) the machine would grind to a halt while it looked for words starting with 'A' while you were typing Access...

 

[Mike_182]

Fair enough if you don't care. Some people spend more time on their PC than others.

That's a load of horsecrap. I use my XP laptop 16 hours a day (without reboot, I turn it off to take it home half way through though) and I have a Windows 2000 desktop at work which hasn't been restarted in 2 years, and I look after nearly 250 Windows 2000 Server and Advanced Server boxes and blades which support an out of hours healthcare company. The only problem I encounter on a daily basis is an incompatibility of a Citrix-delivered legacy application and our Printer setup. It's a minor issue though, because this application is being replaced this year as it's still DOS based, so it's going to have a problem!

 

[ViolentJ]

Fair enough if you don't care. Some people spend more time on their PC than others.

That's a load of horsecrap. I use my XP laptop 16 hours a day (without reboot, I turn it off to take it home half way through though) and I have a Windows 2000 desktop at work which hasn't been restarted in 2 years, and I look after nearly 250 Windows 2000 Server and Advanced Server boxes and blades which support an out of hours healthcare company. The only problem I encounter on a daily basis is an incompatibility of a Citrix-delivered legacy application and our Printer setup. It's a minor issue though, because this application is being replaced this year as it's still DOS based, so it's going to have a problem!

I used MS products including windows for the best part of 13 years and always had problems. If you keep it bog standard and don't install anything then sure you're unlikely to have many problems but when you start installing additional software (lets face it, you have to) then things start going wrong.

In a work environment they test software thoroughly before allowing it to be let loose so it's very rare you would have problems there.

I maintain that anyone saying they never have issues is talking b****cks.

 

[Mells]

I think we should let the Windows fanboys be. I cant see anyone agreeing on this topic. Please, just at least try another OS with an open mind once in your life.

I'll stick with my Linux install, they can stick to their crappy, resource hogging OS.

At the end of the day, everyone is a winner. He doesnt have to use my linux box and I dont/wouldnt want to go near his windows box with a shitty stick.

Amen.

 

[Munson]

LOL at the notion of a Windows fan-boy. People who use Windows generally obviously don't care. That does not make them a fan-boy. Now, Linux geeks etc...

 

[spirez]

LOL at the notion of a Windows fan-boy. People who use Windows generally obviously don't care. That does not make them a fan-boy. Now, Linux geeks etc...

LOL!

Aren't geeks funny creatures. If you don't like their way of thinking you're automatically a fanboy of the competition.

 

[KDF]

Shut it fanboy..

 

[Daz]

See, I can see flaws in every OS, and can see the merits of them all too.
There is no right or wrong answer,

My thoughts:

All Operating Systems are crap; some are just less crap than others at certain things.

Thank you.

 

[ViolentJ]

^ I'll go with that lol