ChatGPT (AI)

[James]

At the same time it's scary how dependent I am on it already

Said this to my mate the other day. Most spare evenings I'm in my office designing and making various things all using AI. Stuff that I couldn't even dream of being able to do 2 years ago.
I've now got ESP32 devices coded doing all sorts of s**t. Touchscreens, wireless scales etc etc yet I've not actually LEARNT how to do any of it. To my family and friends I look like a f**king genius, yet turn AI off tomorrow and I'll go back to being thick as f**k

Long live AI!

 

[charltjr]

Likewise IT support is going to take a hammering.

When that PHP nonsense landed last week, Claude had identified how it applied to us, talked me through putting mitigations in place, then worked up the full final solution for us all before our hosting company had even got their first email out of the door.

I'm sure some stuff will persist for peace of mind and SLA guarantees but a lot of the smaller scale stuff is just dead now.

Yep, absolutely.

I’m AI-ing myself out of a job as we speak. I think the only thing likely to save me is that I have deep domain knowledge in a custom product which no LLM has much of a handle on. I’d hate to be a specialist in anything industry standard about now.

 

[charltjr]

Case in point - Canva.

Business built on providing simple templates for users to build their own content with. Well, they’re doomed then.

Canva announces major job cuts after 'our hardest year yet' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw77pg7neydmo

 

[Louis]

Ai cant continue to be at the current price point though. Are any profitable?

 

[Louis]

Is AI Profitable Yet?

isaiprofitable.com

 

[charltjr]

Ai cant continue to be at the current price point though. Are any profitable?

Nope. We’re still in the “bait” stage of “bait and switch”

 

[Louis]

Nope. We’re still in the “bait” stage of “bait and switch”

Wait until everyone's using ai to run their systems, dismiss all trained staff who previously would run it, increase credit token value to £1000 each.

 

[charltjr]

It’s interesting, some businesses are using open source models, some are training their own models, and there’s a few who are starting to host their own AI infrastructure and making big savings.

British fintech Revolut slashes AI coding costs 10x by cutting out Claude and going self-hosted

Turns out cheap tokens get engineers doing things that save time, like debugging and tackling Jira tickets

www.theregister.com

It’s just another way the whole house of cards is starting to look a bit sketchy.

I know that an awful lot of big banks and other financial institutions have no interest at all in using AI which isn’t under their direct control.

 

[Archtronics]

It’s interesting, some businesses are using open source models, some are training their own models, and there’s a few who are starting to host their own AI infrastructure and making big savings.

British fintech Revolut slashes AI coding costs 10x by cutting out Claude and going self-hosted

Turns out cheap tokens get engineers doing things that save time, like debugging and tackling Jira tickets

www.theregister.com

It’s just another way the whole house of cards is starting to look a bit sketchy.

I know that an awful lot of big banks and other financial institutions have no interest at all in using AI which isn’t under their direct control.

Did they account for the 56 Nvidia B200 GPUs in the cost of the local system I wonder.

 

[charltjr]

Did they account for the 56 Nvidia B200 GPUs in the cost of the local system I wonder.

Massive tax write offs on AI infrastructure will help, offset 100% of the costs against tax in the year of purchase.

Then ongoing savings and having complete control too. Probably helps that Revolut are drowning in cash too

 

[CrippsCorner]

Is AI Profitable Yet?

isaiprofitable.com

That's maaad. Just sent to my AI S&S people!

 

[Rskennedy]

Case in point - Canva.

Business built on providing simple templates for users to build their own content with. Well, they’re doomed then.

Canva announces major job cuts after 'our hardest year yet' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw77pg7neydmo

soon as I heard that they call employees Canvanaughts I threw up onto my laptop

 

[Donny_Dog]

Id advise caution in replacing business dependent systems with self prompt AI builds.
Yes, productivity and workflows, smaller systems and processes, but having it build and control dependant interconnected micro services and support it for business... Make sure you risk assess it!
Its infrastructure it's built on needs supporting and understanding. Claude won't know the underlay and dependencies. What if it is offline, it can't connect and fix anything broken. What about data, ownership, backup, and restore - make sure you know how to do it. Make sure it documents how it works for a human and tests a wipe and rebuild + replatform.

There's more to it, but you could unravel core business if it goes wrong. Caution is all I'm saying. I see small businesses being unleashed here, but above that... Just think about it and talk to the tech teams.

LGTM mentality is upon us

 

[R3k1355]

There are still issues to work through with an AI based tool deployment though, like who is responsible for security scanning and support? Who validates and owns compliance?

You are. The AI company will completely wash it's hands of anything you use it's agents to build.

I'm sure there will be plenty of companys that assume otherwise, and get themselves in a right pickle.

 

[charltjr]

You are. The AI company will completely wash it's hands of anything you use it's agents to build.

I'm sure there will be plenty of companys that assume otherwise, and get themselves in a right pickle.

Absolutely, has nothing to do whatsoever with the AI companies. It was more of a rhetorical question.

One of the things I’m being very careful of where I work is to make sure that any tools Claude suggests would be useful to integrate into what I’m building are already on our open source software approval list, or I need to go and get those approvals. Licensing and redistribution of open source software for commercial use is another topic that people without industry knowledge simply won’t be likely to have understanding of.

 

[dann2707]

I'm finding the disconnect between good quality work and ai.

I'm having lots of AI generated models being fired my way for 3d printing, which is great for business but as someone's who's had to model things by scratch since uni (2010) see little things like this is quite disappointing, not the artifacts but just the acceptance of meh, they're there, don't worry.

I called this out to a customer thinking it was a feature of some sort but no it was just as a result of ai making it and when I picked up on it the response was "yeah that's just an imperfection from ai don't worry" but the scary thing is that, has just been accepted.

It's like the poor workmanship of new builds, it's just accepted and that drive for quality is there.

 

[Oggy997]

It's refreshing to see that perspective from non-IT people, of course it's revolutionary and empowers people to achieve things they're not capable (time/knowledge/skill) to do themselves.

I find when I raise issues with it's output, people default to thinking I'm chastising it because it threatens what I do, but it's not that, it's that for someone that can't do it themselves, it appears amazing (and it is) - but it's far from perfect & not having that same skill/knowledge/time to review it, means you don't really know what imperfections there are.

 

[charltjr]

Even in IT, if you don’t know what you’re actually doing the outputs it gives can be hot garbage, or downright dangerous in some cases.

It’s an incredibly useful and powerful tool, it’s letting me do things that I wouldn’t have dreamed of before in terms of toolset development. The last time I coded in anger was over 20 years ago. But if you just let it do whatever it thinks is right, you are gonna get in a serious mess

 

[R3k1355]

At the same time it's scary how dependent I am on it already. I can easily see an entire generation of people ending up with zero decision making capacity.

 

[J-J]

It all depends on how you use it and your approach.

I'm very much of the view now that I treat it as a competent individual when asking it to do something, who may or may not have expertise in the area I'm asking it to work, and understand that and will tell me.

When it returns something, I check it does what I want and look at ways to break what it produces. Usually from first draft to something I'm happy with will be ~100 interactions and reviews improving it. The benefit is them 100 iterations are done whilst I'm sleeping, during meetings etc. I set it going and leave it running in the background.

Most industries will have legends of the building block holding everything up that no-one quite understands, I see AI as no different really.

 

[Touring_Rob]

It's refreshing to see that perspective from non-IT people, of course it's revolutionary and empowers people to achieve things they're not capable (time/knowledge/skill) to do themselves.

I find when I raise issues with it's output, people default to thinking I'm chastising it because it threatens what I do, but it's not that, it's that for someone that can't do it themselves, it appears amazing (and it is) - but it's far from perfect & not having that same skill/knowledge/time to review it, means you don't really know what imperfections there are.

Lol

Told Codex to reboot his server.

Told to reboot a server, it destroyed systemd, destroyed containers, ran random scripts, cost me $10,000+ · Issue #59060 · openai/codex

What version of Codex CLI is running? v0.166.0 What subscription do you have? Business Which model were you using? gpt-6-sol medium What platform is your computer? Linux 6.17.0-1017-aws x86_64 x86_...

github.com

 

[Touring_Rob]

I'm finding the disconnect between good quality work and ai.

I'm having lots of AI generated models being fired my way for 3d printing, which is great for business but as someone's who's had to model things by scratch since uni (2010) see little things like this is quite disappointing, not the artifacts but just the acceptance of meh, they're there, don't worry.

I called this out to a customer thinking it was a feature of some sort but no it was just as a result of ai making it and when I picked up on it the response was "yeah that's just an imperfection from ai don't worry" but the scary thing is that, has just been accepted.

It's like the poor workmanship of new builds, it's just accepted and that drive for quality is there.


View attachment 1805197

100% agree.

Im a bad coder, but (imo) a good electronics designer. When someone uses ai to design electronics I can' often tell right away, what it generates probably works but its looks like amateur hour, will it get better? sure.

But I often wonder if really good programmers look at some of the ai generated code and just shake their heads.

 

[SharkyUK]

This makes me really sad, very uncomfortable, and soon to be homeless and selling my cars. 11 years ago, starting my own software development business was the best thing I'd done. And now 40 years of trying to perfect my craft and I'm dismissed as a fraud for overcharging customers and clients over all these years because folks can now do this stuff without having to know how it actually works. I get it, and good on you for using it. But some of us are royally f**ked right now. I'm not sure where I go at the moment if I'm honest. Desperate times.

 

[charltjr]

But I often wonder if really good programmers look at some of the ai generated code and just shake their heads.

I can absolutely confirm that they do. We outsourced a project at work and our devs got driven crazy by the vibe coded shite that got delivered. They spent so much time bug fixing and re-engineering that it may as well have been kept in house.

This makes me really sad, very uncomfortable, and soon to be homeless and selling my cars. 11 years ago, starting my own software development business was the best thing I'd done. And now 40 years of trying to perfect my craft and I'm dismissed as a fraud for overcharging customers and clients over all these years because folks can now do this stuff without having to know how it actually works. I get it, and good on you for using it. But some of us are royally f**ked right now. I'm not sure where I go at the moment if I'm honest. Desperate times.

I can’t sympathise enough with people in your situation. AI is going to devastate so many good businesses in the short term. I suspect the pendulum will swing back a bit but it’s going to be tough times in a way the tech sector has never seen. Offshoring was bad enough, but this is more like the collapse of skilled manufacturing due to the replacement of workers with robots.

On my side in support the efficiency gains are staggering, with obvious implications for staffing. I think I’ve maybe got a year tops if I’m lucky. My only option to keep my job is to grab AI with both hands and try to use it to deliver some real value.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Thats s**t, sorry mate.

Time to embrace it and create some awesome ai based rendering program you can sell instead of contracting for other people who won't realise they don't know better for another few years?

 

[Touring_Rob]

I can absolutely confirm that they do. We outsourced a project at work and our devs got driven crazy by the vibe coded shite that got delivered. They spent so much time bug fixing and re-engineering that it may as well have been kept in house.



I can’t sympathise enough with people in your situation. AI is going to devastate so many good businesses in the short term. I suspect the pendulum will swing back a bit but it’s going to be tough times in a way the tech sector has never seen. Offshoring was bad enough, but this is more like the collapse of skilled manufacturing due to the replacement of workers with robots.

On my side in support the efficiency gains are staggering, with obvious implications for staffing. I think I’ve maybe got a year tops if I’m lucky. My only option to keep my job is to grab AI with both hands and try to use it to deliver some real value.

Although for the programming side of things I read that a big game house is now telling devs to code nothing, everything is ai and they are there to check output and design prompts! Which is crazy.

Certainly feels like if you don't embrace it now you're going to be dead in a few years...

 

[Donny_Dog]

This makes me really sad, very uncomfortable, and soon to be homeless and selling my cars. 11 years ago, starting my own software development business was the best thing I'd done. And now 40 years of trying to perfect my craft and I'm dismissed as a fraud for overcharging customers and clients over all these years because folks can now do this stuff without having to know how it actually works. I get it, and good on you for using it. But some of us are royally f**ked right now. I'm not sure where I go at the moment if I'm honest. Desperate times.

How about a shift, to being "the human in the loop". Who can critique the s**t. Do governance and risk around A.I coded stuff. Explaining the need for proper release management and offering consultancy for reviews in ore-prod or something.
Just trying to think what would actually be valuable not let them skills go to waste.

 

[charltjr]

Although for the programming side of things I read that a big game house is now telling devs to code nothing, everything is ai and they are there to check output and design prompts! Which is crazy.

Certainly feels like if you don't embrace it now you're going to be dead in a few years...

I don’t think it’s quite that dark longer term, because AI is currently running at a huge loss. The value proposition is going to change the minute costs get realistic.

For right now though, yeah, brown trousers.

How about a shift, to being "the human in the loop". Who can critique the s**t. Do governance and risk around A.I coded stuff. Explaining the need for proper release management and offering consultancy for reviews in ore-prod or something.
Just trying to think what would actually be valuable not let them skills go to waste.

Absolutely this. It’s what I’m shooting for.

 

[J-J]

One thing I'm greatful for is my kids are young enough that hopefully by the time they're considering careers it's hopefully lately settled and they can find their feet.

@SharkyUK I feel for people in your situation as you're now in a race to the bottom against a loss making mega corp.

But I guess this is the long term gamble the investors are making with these apps, ride out the demise of true coders and build reliance then hammer the pricing.

It'll be an interesting few years ahead that's for sure

 

[Touring_Rob]

I don’t think it’s quite that dark longer term, because AI is currently running at a huge loss. The value proposition is going to change the minute costs get realistic.

For right now though, yeah, brown trousers.



Absolutely this. It’s what I’m shooting for.

I think the opposite might happen. The moment they kill a bit of competition prices are going to rocket.

 

[SharkyUK]

How about a shift, to being "the human in the loop". Who can critique the s**t. Do governance and risk around A.I coded stuff. Explaining the need for proper release management and offering consultancy for reviews in ore-prod or something.
Just trying to think what would actually be valuable not let them skills go to waste.

That's part of the problem mate - software developers are being laid off left, right and centre and those left as "humans in the loop" are becoming little more than babysitters to the AI agents. It is soul-destroying when your entire day is spent reading code that you haven't had any real input into and the sheer amount of code generated is leading to mass burnout. The reality is that code reviews aren't happening, or AI-reviewers are reviewing AI -generated code, and the human in the loop is becoming less and less valued. I hate to think of the stuff that is going through without proper review because of laziness, pressure from management to push a product out, or through mistakes due to not fully having grasp of what is being reviewed (and the wider context) and burnout. Yet developers are still expected to take responsibility for that code... It doesn't quite sit right or comfortably if I'm honest.

The other problem I am having is that applying to be the human in the loop is the same as applying for a software engineering role; they are basically the same thing now. For the reasons I've mentioned above. It p*sses me off when I keep reading that, "writing the code was never the difficult part" and how "software engineers are now free'd from that chore to focus on the architecture and design"...

Sure, there are definitely some grains of truth in that as software engineering is more than writing code, but the difference is that writing the code meant you were intimate with it, that you knew the context in which it was being written and how it sat as a module/component of the wider system. Human ability and limits also tended to mean that code reviews were manageable as a single developer or team weren't capable of generating 10,000 lines of code in the space of 10 minutes. Personally speaking, I actually enjoyed the grind of writing the code, too; I found it quite artistic as well as technical, and it also afforded me the time to think about what I was doing without the overload that AI coding agents throw at you every few moments as they work up a solution to a prompt.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go mate as I totally get what you are saying and appreciate your comment/suggestion and kind sentiments; truly, thank you.

I've got a lot to say on this subject as what I am seeing right now genuinely scares me (not just due to the fact that I now find myself in the s**t), but this isn't the time or place and I don't think I could actually say some of the stuff without potentially getting into a lot of trouble. Honestly, I appreciate the kind words and sentiments though so thank you chaps.

(I never realised how ageist the job market is, too - if you've got a job, even if it's a little bit crap, it might be worth hanging onto right now as getting back through the door at 50 is a nightmare).

 

[charltjr]

That's part of the problem mate - software developers are being laid off left, right and centre and those left as "humans in the loop" are becoming little more than babysitters to the AI agents. It is soul-destroying when your entire day is spent reading code that you haven't had any real input into and the sheer amount of code generated is leading to mass burnout. The reality is that code reviews aren't happening, or AI-reviewers are reviewing AI -generated code, and the human in the loop is becoming less and less valued. I hate to think of the stuff that is going through without proper review because of laziness, pressure from management to push a product out, or through mistakes due to not fully having grasp of what is being reviewed (and the wider context) and burnout. Yet developers are still expected to take responsibility for that code... It doesn't quite sit right or comfortably if I'm honest.

The other problem I am having is that applying to be the human in the loop is the same as applying for a software engineering role; they are basically the same thing now. For the reasons I've mentioned above. It p*sses me off when I keep reading that, "writing the code was never the difficult part" and how "software engineers are now free'd from that chore to focus on the architecture and design"...

Sure, there are definitely some grains of truth in that as software engineering is more than writing code, but the difference is that writing the code meant you were intimate with it, that you knew the context in which it was being written and how it sat as a module/component of the wider system. Human ability and limits also tended to mean that code reviews were manageable as a single developer or team weren't capable of generating 10,000 lines of code in the space of 10 minutes. Personally speaking, I actually enjoyed the grind of writing the code, too; I found it quite artistic as well as technical, and it also afforded me the time to think about what I was doing without the overload that AI coding agents throw at you every few moments as they work up a solution to a prompt.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go mate as I totally get what you are saying and appreciate your comment/suggestion and kind sentiments; truly, thank you.

I've got a lot to say on this subject as what I am seeing right now genuinely scares me (not just due to the fact that I now find myself in the s**t), but this isn't the time or place and I don't think I could actually say some of the stuff without potentially getting into a lot of trouble. Honestly, I appreciate the kind words and sentiments though so thank you chaps.

(I never realised how ageist the job market is, too - if you've got a job, even if it's a little bit crap, it might be worth hanging onto right now as getting back through the door at 50 is a nightmare).

Ageism is absolutely rife, it’s terrible. I’m hanging on for grim death.

As for the rest, I completely get you. Developing elegant, performant, maintainable code is highly skilled work which borders on an art form. It’s not a good idea for anyone to end up with god-awful spaghetti which can only be maintained by an AI, but that’s clearly where we’re headed.