How to turn off starter button?

[AhmedRSi]

Hi guys,

Basically was with a friend and showed him my fancy starter button (where the horn use to be on a mk2ph1 clio). I told him the only bad thing is that when you press it (ie by accident) during driving the starter motor activates. Now, i was told this is very bad as it can not only ruin the starter motor but damage the flywheel?

Is there any way to wire the button so it does nothing once pressed when the engine is on?

Ahmed

 

[iimushroomzii]

Ignoreeeeeeee.

 

[AhmedRSi]

^ sorry, if thats a serious reply i dont really understand

 

[iimushroomzii]

Ohhhhhh, I thought you meant take it out completely, in the other case I have no idea.

 

[AhmedRSi]

No, I like the button im just wondering how to wire it up so it doesnt get turned on once the engine is on (if thats even possible)

 

[Paddy_g46]

it will be a pain in the arse, why not just not touch it?!

 

[AhmedRSi]

I dont (i might have done this a total of 3 times ever), but does it really f**k up your flywheel?

 

[Paddy_g46]

I dont (i might have done this a total of 3 times ever), but does it really f**k up your flywheel?

Well yeh it would do if you kept doing it because you are engaging the teeth of the motor onto the flywheel which is doing 1000's of rpm!

Saying that mate i wouldnt worry about it! Just watch where you put your hands!

 

[Missing Link]

You could isolate the starter excite button feed with a 5 pin relay, You would need this to break this circut when the engine was running...... IE, the fuel pump feed circut.

This is straight off the top of my head but could be done with a bit of thought and time.

 

[AhmedRSi]

^ ah i understand you there. but what could i use thats located near the dash/ignition to break the circuit lol! Surely only something thats on when the engine is on?

 

[AhmedRSi]

Well yeh it would do if you kept doing it because you are engaging the teeth of the motor onto the flywheel which is doing 1000's of rpm!

Saying that mate i wouldnt worry about it! Just watch where you put your hands!

I dont keep doing it but im very wery of it happening and if it is a risk i dont want to risk it !

 

[Missing Link]

^ ah i understand you there. but what could i use thats located near the dash/ignition to break the circuit lol! Surely only something thats on when the engine is on?

You would need to bring up a feed up from the fuel pump loom or any circut that was live ONLY when the engine was running.

This would energize the relay and split the starter feed, When switched off the relay would snap back and restore the starter circut.

 

[AhmedRSi]

Ah thanks for that missing link... any idea where the fuel pump loom is? or any other curcuit that is only live when the engine is running?

Also - When does the fuel pump circuit engage? because if its at the exact second the engine switches on then that might be a problem as the relay will always be deactivating itself lol..

 

[Missing Link]

Most vehicles have them running along one of the inner sills, There's bound to be another " Engine run wire" but having never had to look for one, I don't know where it would be. Time to dig out the multimeter....LOL

Somebody on here will jump in i'm sure.

 

[AhmedRSi]

^ do you know if it will engage before the engine actually turns over? because if so then it would interfere with my current relay and it will be a continuous loop of:

- press button
- Relay tries to start starter motor
- Fuel line live cuts the relay
- starter motor didnt get enough power to start / turn over engine.

Does that make sense?

 

[Missing Link]

Yeah I'm hearing you, Would be best to meter it up before final fitting.

The Pump fires to bring up the line pressure up on ignition and then rests.

The Question is does the pump power up when the starter turns or only when the ECU see's the engine fire.

Also a badly starting engine might cause you problems.

Best thing to do is meter the pump feed and see what time delay you have ( If any)

 

[AhmedRSi]

What about something like this... Instead of bothering with the fuel live at all? Seems to be a relay that automatically turns off after a certain time
www.aaroncake.net/circuits/relaytim.asp

 

[Missing Link]

Yeah, why not.... Some vehicles use timer relays on heated rear screens to stop it being left on too long a overheating the glass....

 

[AhmedRSi]

Now... Where can I find a timer relay that is suitable and will stop the button working after certain few seconds? Lol?

Thanks for ur input btw

 

[Missing Link]

Time to search the Net...... The theory is there just need to source the correct relay.

12v timer relay with a 30 amp switched load.

Lucas UK used to be great for this stuff.... But the went tits up last year.

I'll put my thinking cap on.

 

[Dink]

this maybe?

 

[Missing Link]

Ideal.... But a heavier output would be needed. 5 amp would burn out after a time .... Good find though.

 

[AhmedRSi]

Thanks mate let me know if u find anything or else I'll be putting it back to normal tomorrow

 

[Dink]

whats the rating of the switch he is using?:S

 

[AhmedRSi]

The switch is the horn button on the end of the left hand stalk so I have no idea

 

[Dink]

probably about 0.5 of a amp as it is just switching a relay

so i'd say that relay i showed would be good enough to disable that after a set time

 

[Missing Link]

Does the Clio have a starter relay or does the ignition switch do a straight feed to starter solenoid ? (Only just got mine and not up to speed on this circut)

If it has a switching relay, then it would be fine, On straight Ign switch feeds/cuts we always fit 30 amp'ers on alarms , immobilizers Etc. Don't want them burning the contacts.

 

[AhmedRSi]

Erm, im not sure. But i put a relay in there and used the switch from the left indicator with the relay powering it.

 

[Dink]

yeah so just wire the relay contact on the timer one i showed to open the supply to the relay coil you installed

 

[Missing Link]

Yeah... Long way round, But would work.

 

[AhmedRSi]

Wow seems like a lot of work, specially since i've just read the relay timer needs self assembly! Tbh it has too many flaws using a timer, ive been thinking about it

eg - if the timer is set to disable the relay off after 8 seconds every time, what happens if i need to jump start the car one day? and I need to have the starter motor open for longer than 8 seconds? lol... unlikely but it could happen!

I think ill be putting it back to normal tomorrow, push button starts dont make for quick getaways anyway!!!

On another note, ill have a relay for sale / for free soon in the classifieds thats all wired up with instructions.. maybe someone else can make use of it if they cover my p+p costs!

 

[Missing Link]

Buy a dash starter button and use that button for NOS....LOL

 

[AhmedRSi]

Or maybe it could be used to power my electric turbocharger

 

[Hutchie]

how about using the engine stop light as your isolator...

 

[AhmedRSi]

Engine stop light? on the dash?! How hard could this be to do? Isnt it a SMD on the board of the dials?

 

[Hutchie]

Engine stop light? on the dash?! How hard could this be to do? Isnt it a SMD on the board of the dials?

but its the only thing i can think of that is directly related to engine running, as the fuel pump runs with ignition on to start.

i would require a relay wiring backwards of the signal wire to the clocks.

do able, something im gonna look at as im gonna fit my starter buttion in the heater panel, dont trust passengers

 

[AhmedRSi]

dont trust passengers

Thats exactly why im changing this! Forgot to mention in my op the majority of the time its passangers playing about!

A swift backhand always puts em right but unfortunately the buttons already been pressed by then


Edit - When exactly does the stop light come on/go off etc? because remember the stop light comes on with the handbrake!

 

[Hutchie]

Thats exactly why im changing this! Forgot to mention in my op the majority of the time its passangers playing about!

A swift backhand always puts em right but unfortunately the buttons already been pressed by then


Edit - When exactly does the stop light come on/go off etc? because remember the stop light comes on with the handbrake!

mine doesnt come on with handbrake as mines a ph2

 

[AhmedRSi]

ph-aggot

 

[Hutchie]

ph-aggot

sorry i was genuinly trying to help