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Self loosening wheel nuts?!

sladen1720

sladen1720

Car  172
Wheel nuts on my clio keep making a clunking sound when driving, i stopped to check everything and realised my wheel nuts where very loose so i tightened them up (very tight). was fine for a day or two until the noise came back later on this evening. Checked the alloys again and they had come loose again. Any ideas as to what this might be?
Any ideas muchly appreciated. Cheers. Tom
 
this happened to me before. i shat myself. when i checked there was two left holding the wheel on... the wheel almost fell off when i was 30 feet from the garage lol. two snapped into the hub :s
 
oh right!! thank you very much. so its a self fix thing if i get the right tools? and is it recommended that i drive it while i have tightened them with the `pointless rench`?
 
sladen1720 said:
oh right!! thank you very much. so its a self fix thing if i get the right tools? and is it recommended that i drive it while i have tightened them with the `pointless rench`?
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Once the nuts are at the correct torque they should not loosen. Said that, I've used a normal wrench to tighten nuts before and never had any problems with loosening. Keep check on them regularly until you can get them torqued up. A tyre fitter could do this for you for a couple of quid out of courtesy.
 
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I just guess the tightness of mine & never had a problem.
 
simply ed, you are a hero pal. lost sleep over this. picturing my self coming off a round about and a wheel flying off and ruining my ncb! cheers mate. And your 182 is mint by the way.
 
Get them as tight as you can get them with the thing from the boot (tyre wrench??) then once done put it on each nut in sequence and have it between vertical and horizontal (about a 45degree angle) put all your weight on it with your foot. job done.
 
sladen1720 said:
simply ed, you are a hero pal. lost sleep over this. picturing my self coming off a round about and a wheel flying off and ruining my ncb! cheers mate. And your 182 is mint by the way.
Click to expand...

Well if you check then you minimise the chances of this happening. I would say before and after every journey / every 50 miles until the problem has 100% gone away.

Thanks :)
 
wheel bolts and threads should be clean from grease etc, (no copper slip ffs) bolts should be torqed over tightening will stretch the bolt. both these will cause them to loosen
 
Yeah if you've DIY painted wheels and not correctly sealed off the bolt holes, excess paint can run into the bolt holes. This can cause the bolts to loosen off whilst moving. I had this with my track wheels, once the paint has worn out they stop doing it..lol
 
IMO it's best not to do what Rhys says. Sorry Rhys. I hate doing this.
Correct torque is very important. Overtorqueing can deform the threads in the hub and then you're screwed.
The first time you will find the threads are deformed and screwed is when they fail.

Take the wheels off, thoroughly clean the mating faces and the conical faces where the the bolts sit and the bolts themselves.
Tighten them up in a cruciform pattern. 12, 6, 9 and 3 o'clock.

As far as torqueing them, go and get a torque wrench now. Halfords ones aren't bad.

Good luck.

Edit. Oh, and what AbiBailey says too.
 
Tiger260 said:
IMO it's best not to do what Rhys says. Sorry Rhys. I hate doing this.
Correct torque is very important. Overtorqueing can deform the threads in the hub and then you're screwed.
The first time you will find the threads are deformed and screwed is when they fail.

Take the wheels off, thoroughly clean the mating faces and the conical faces where the the bolts sit and the bolts themselves.
Tighten them up in a cruciform pattern. 12, 6, 9 and 3 o'clock.

As far as torqueing them, go and get a torque wrench now. Halfords ones aren't bad.

Good luck.

Edit. Oh, and what AbiBailey says too.
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its fine. i know what i said is completely wrong. but im a fan of pikey methods.
 
I hope you arnt using the ones that come with a certian brand of huncentrics, they are like cheese and will snap as they have done to various people on here before.
 
just got back form halfords got stuck in hurrendous traffic due to another crashed clio! young lads in clios eh. asked about a torque wrench and she showed me a cabinet of 2 of them costing 85 pounds!!! haha dont think so. take it to a garage instead i think. while i was there i got a spray can and tried spraying my 1.2 engine cover instead and my 16v bullets.
 
As suggested, there must either be flakey paint in the nut holes or some muck of some kind, doesnt matter how much you put on them they will come off if anything is in the wholes. (It always happens with refurbed wheels.......smack them up......drive it ......take wheel off clear the paint out....then you will have no problems)
 
sladen1720 said:
just got back form halfords got stuck in hurrendous traffic due to another crashed clio! young lads in clios eh. asked about a torque wrench and she showed me a cabinet of 2 of them costing 85 pounds!!! haha dont think so. take it to a garage instead i think. while i was there i got a spray can and tried spraying my 1.2 engine cover instead and my 16v bullets.
Click to expand...

That is a lot but you do get what you pay for with torque wrenches. Hopefully a good clean will do it.
 
The garage/tyre place will probably burp them up with an airgun, then they aint EVER coming undone, especially with the token wrench you get with your spare wheel...

I use a little blue loctite on mine & torque them up, also keep a 36" breaker bar & socket in my boot if I ever do get a puncture... needless to say it will be dark & raining...;)
 
A little smear of copper grease wont affect wheels bolts at all, total nonsense.

If youve been driving with bolts loose theres a chance theres damage to the bolt thread / hub thread or even the wheel itself so check throughly.

Make sure you torque them when done, 100nm iirc.
 
Bongy said:
A little smear of copper grease wont affect wheels bolts at all, total nonsense.

If youve been driving with bolts loose theres a chance theres damage to the bolt thread / hub thread or even the wheel itself so check throughly.

Make sure you torque them when done, 100nm iirc.
Click to expand...

I see where you're coming from with that but like all things in life, it isn't always that simple.

In an ideal World you're right but you have to remember that a torque setting is calculated to install a certain amount of pressure into the components to keep them in position and a calculated amount of friction in the threads to prevent them dismantling.
The forces that are to be installed in the fixings are calculated making an allowancee for the desired condition of the fixings. Either clean dry fixings or lightly oiled ones.
In this situation, Renault should specify somewhere.
Using a lubricant like Copper grease could mean that you overtighten the nut or bolt to achieve the correct torqueing value and in doing do you damage or deform the threads due to the change in the frictional characteristics of the nut/ bolt union.
In extreme circumstances, the thread will strip before you hit the correct torque.

I could talk for hours about this as it is a massive subject.
God, I am so very, very sad.
 
As previously mentioned make sure you tighten them up in opposits eg 12,6,9,3 o'clock if your just going round in a circle tightening them that will also be your adding to your problem.
 
Personally I wouldnt advise copaslip - this would only help them shake themselves out faster if they did become loose?

Got my torque wrench off of ebay, paid like £35 for a nearnew £80 Halfords one. :)
 
Tiger260 said:
I see where you're coming from with that but like all things in life, it isn't always that simple.

In an ideal World you're right but you have to remember that a torque setting is calculated to install a certain amount of pressure into the components to keep them in position and a calculated amount of friction in the threads to prevent them dismantling.
The forces that are to be installed in the fixings are calculated making an allowancee for the desired condition of the fixings. Either clean dry fixings or lightly oiled ones.
In this situation, Renault should specify somewhere.
Using a lubricant like Copper grease could mean that you overtighten the nut or bolt to achieve the correct torqueing value and in doing do you damage or deform the threads due to the change in the frictional characteristics of the nut/ bolt union.
In extreme circumstances, the thread will strip before you hit the correct torque.

I could talk for hours about this as it is a massive subject.
God, I am so very, very sad.
Click to expand...

I understand the theory, and yes a smear of copper slip would reduce friction thus making making your 100nm slightly more, but in the real world it doesnt matter.

You could probably torque a clio wheel nut to 200nm and the thread wouldnt strip, how many garages do you think actually torque them on? Alot dont and I know this from experience, Airgun on full chat and 200nm+.

So in summary, a smear of copper grease isnt going to make your bolts wind themselves out, im not advising you do it as theres not really any need. Just annoys me when people say it will make your wheels fall off.

Wheel bolts come out because they're too loose or stupidly tight.
 
Bongy said:
I understand the theory, and yes a smear of copper slip would reduce friction thus making making your 100nm slightly more, but in the real world it doesnt matter.

You could probably torque a clio wheel nut to 200nm and the thread wouldnt strip, how many garages do you think actually torque them on? Alot dont and I know this from experience, Airgun on full chat and 200nm+.

So in summary, a smear of copper grease isnt going to make your bolts wind themselves out, im not advising you do it as theres not really any need. Just annoys me when people say it will make your wheels fall off.

Wheel bolts come out because they're too loose or stupidly tight.
Click to expand...

It wasn't a dig mate, just chatting.

I see the major reason being a false torque ie. dirty faces etc and a gradual loss of retention and shite tooling.

Nice location by the way. :approve:
 
Tiger260 said:
It wasn't a dig mate, just chatting.

I see the major reason being a false torque ie. dirty faces etc and a gradual loss of retention and shite tooling.

Nice location by the way. :approve:
Click to expand...

No mate i wasnt having a go, it was an earlier post that said not to use copper grease, in which i agree to an extent but i dont think copper grease has ever made a bolt come out ever.
 
I got tyres changed last year and 2 of my nuts were on the wrong threads in the n/s front wheel - bloody buzz guns!

Meant the wheel was making an awful banging noise when you took your foot off the pedal and driving at slow speeds due to the wheel having about 2mm of movement on 2 of the nuts
You wouldn't notice this if you jacked the car up and shook the wheel as the other 2 nuts were as tight as a nun's arse

Stopped at a mates garage (luckily) and went to loosen the nuts to check them only to have 2 of them snap in the hub!
He re-threaded my hub for me the next day for the price of a few beers :)

Moral of the story
ALWAYS loosen up your wheel bolts and do them by hand if you get them put on with an air gun!

Oh and copper grease is a great touch ;)
 
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