What Engine Swaps are possible with a 2001 Clio 2 Ph1 RT Alize (1.4 8v K7J)

Razmann4k · Dec 12, 2023

Hi. As the title states, I currently have a Clio 2 Phase 1 with the 1.4 8v K7J engine, and just out of curiosity I'd like to know what other engines would fit on the subframe and gearbox (should be a JB1) without cutting and fabricating.

As I'm in South Africa, there are virtually no 172s/182s. The 2.0 16v F4R however still made its way here in the Megane, albeit with only 136bhp. We did get the 1.4 16v K4J, but it seems mostly in the Ph2 from 2002 onwards. There are also 1.6 16v K4Ms here from my research, but they never came in the Clio itself over here. Replacing the gearbox with some of these engines is also required according to what I've read.

Additionally, I'm curious as to how the whole immobiliser situation works when swapping engines, surely if I were to put a K4J or K4M engine in along with its associated ECU and wiring harness, the transponder in my key would no longer work, right?

hopgop1 · Dec 12, 2023

Key, ECU and UCH work together, so usually you’d swap them all at the same time. Encoder ring isn’t programmed AFAIK.

Razmann4k · Dec 12, 2023

hopgop1 said:
Key, ECU and UCH work together, so usually you’d swap them all at the same time. Encoder ring isn’t programmed AFAIK.

Thanks for the reply. I guess that means an engine swap isn't possible if your old ECU can't run the new engine (I'm guessing my K7J ECU won't run any of the newer multi-valve engines). That is unless you basically buy a whole parts car with working engine, ecu, uch, etc. I'm assuming most engine suppliers will only sell you the engine, which would only work if you're swapping from blown K4J to new K4J, for example.

That's helpful information, thank you. Would just make more sense to sell my 8V off one day and buy a 16V.

Martin_172 · Dec 13, 2023

Depends on the year of your ph1 I believe. Mine is a 1999 1.2 8v (d7f) and I fitted a 1.6 16v k4m engine, jb3 gearbox and the k4m ECU and it fired straight up on the original 1.2 key.

Jb1 and jb3 boxes are very similar I think all jb1 are front starter where jb3 are rear starter

Razmann4k · Dec 14, 2023

Hi Martin_172, thanks for the reply. I

Martin_172 said:
Depends on the year of your ph1 I believe. Mine is a 1999 1.2 8v (d7f) and I fitted a 1.6 16v k4m engine, jb3 gearbox and the k4m ECU and it fired straight up on the original 1.2 key.

Jb1 and jb3 boxes are very similar I think all jb1 are front starter where jb3 are rear starter

Oh, that's interesting. My Ph1 is a 2001 model, even the body panels are stamped with the 2001 manufacturing date, so I assume it wasn't old stock that was just sent to South Africa in 2001. That probably means my key won't play ball

but not the end of the world.

Interestingly enough, I found a video on YT claiming that the immobiliser on a 2001 Clio can be bypassed by putting the key in position 2 (fuel pump clicks on), holding the central locking button on the key, going back to position 1 and then position 2 again. Would like to try it on my spare key that no longer starts the car normally, not a great idea for theft prevention, but if it works in my favour then so be it🤷‍♂️

Razmann4k · Dec 14, 2023

Martin_172 said:
Depends on the year of your ph1 I believe. Mine is a 1999 1.2 8v (d7f) and I fitted a 1.6 16v k4m engine, jb3 gearbox and the k4m ECU and it fired straight up on the original 1.2 key.

Jb1 and jb3 boxes are very similar I think all jb1 are front starter where jb3 are rear starter

By the way, did you also have to replace your radiator when upgrading from the 1.2 8v to the 1.6 16v? I'm assuming you would have to, but from my googling, my 1.4 8v radiator looks identical to the one on the 1.6 16v.

Martin_172 · Dec 14, 2023

i say early ph1, only because i was led to believe you couldn't mix the key and ECU's but when i tried it, it worked! so assume its because its an early car? or possibly the info online was just wrong! i know on a ph2 you definitely cant mix them as the ECU, UCH and key must match.

I changed the radiator as the 1.6 one was much bigger but if yours look around the same size you should be fine!

Razmann4k · Dec 15, 2023

Martin_172 said:
i say early ph1, only because i was led to believe you couldn't mix the key and ECU's but when i tried it, it worked! so assume its because its an early car? or possibly the info online was just wrong! i know on a ph2 you definitely cant mix them as the ECU, UCH and key must match.

I changed the radiator as the 1.6 one was much bigger but if yours look around the same size you should be fine!

Thanks for the info! I've found both the K4M and JC3 gearbox for sale, but the engine doesn't come with an ECU. I found the ECU and wiring loom separately, do you think the engine and ECU have to come from the same car?

Martin_172 · Dec 15, 2023

na you can use a different ECU from a different engine shouldn't be a problem

Razmann4k · Dec 15, 2023

Alright, thanks for all the help

time to save up to turn my cold hatch into a hot one😂

Razmann4k · Dec 23, 2023

Martin_172 said:
na you can use a different ECU from a different engine shouldn't be a problem

Hi again, just wanted to mention that I tried the immobiliser trick (that YT video that recommended holding the central locking button on the key while it is inserted and turned to position 2, flip to position 1 and back to 2 again when the blinking red light doesn't turn off and the car won't start) and...

IT ACTUALLY WORKED! For some reason, my spare key doesn't disable the immobiliser, but when performing the trick, it does, but I have to do it every time I restart the car after a while, quite strange.

I hope then that this is a sign that my UCH is not very fussy like the phase 2s. Fingers crossed🤞

smclt30p · Jan 8, 2024

Martin_172 said:
Depends on the year of your ph1 I believe. Mine is a 1999 1.2 8v (d7f) and I fitted a 1.6 16v k4m engine, jb3 gearbox and the k4m ECU and it fired straight up on the original 1.2 key.

Jb1 and jb3 boxes are very similar I think all jb1 are front starter where jb3 are rear starter

If you need a JB1 but with a rear starter the JB1-510 from the 1.4 16v Phase 2 Clio is a rear starter

Razmann4k · Jan 8, 2024

galicognjen said:
If you need a JB1 but with a rear starter the JB1-510 from the 1.4 16v Phase 2 Clio is a rear starter

Hi, thanks for the info. I think getting a K4M, K4M ECU and K4J gearbox makes the most sense for me.

As much as I'd like a 2.0, there's a lot more to do, especially since South Africa never got the 172, so the only F4R I could get would come with the longer 6-speed box out of a Megane and would require a lot more fabrication.

First however, I'd like to upgrade my 238mm front solid discs to 259mm vented discs, given that even my current unmodified 75hp K7J caused them to fade during a 5-min spirited driving session 😂

Martin_172 · Jan 8, 2024

my K4M Clio goes really well, with so little weight it doesn't feel much slower than my 197 lol

Front brake upgrade is nice and easy, I'm not sure if you need the hubs (id suspect you will) but other than that its an easy swap. just remember MOST solid disc cars I've come across had the 52mm front suspension bolt spacing and every 259mm car I've come across has had the 58mm, so may need the shocks too.

Razmann4k · Jan 8, 2024

Martin_172 said:
my K4M Clio goes really well, with so little weight it doesn't feel much slower than my 197 lol

Front brake upgrade is nice and easy, I'm not sure if you need the hubs (id suspect you will) but other than that its an easy swap. just remember MOST solid disc cars I've come across had the 52mm front suspension bolt spacing and every 259mm car I've come across has had the 58mm, so may need the shocks too.

That's good to hear, in South Africa the K4J was the best you got in the Clio 2, so if I ended up doing the swap, my car would be pretty unique 😂

I actually found a guide to swap from 238mm to 259mm discs on a different Renault forum (not sure if linking it would be allowed so I'll avoid doing that). The post stated that all you need if you have Lucas calipers (which I do) are the new discs, calipers and carriers.

One thing I am concerned about is driveshafts. My car didn't come with ABS, so there is no reluctor ring on the driveshafts, so I hope that changing gearboxes doesn't mean changing driveshafts since as you said, my hubs are not the same as the 16V, meaning they'd probably have to be changed as well.

Martin_172 · Jan 8, 2024

driveshafts should be fine id have thought, its only when you go 2.0 16v widetrack, no ABS is good as it makes a rear disc conversion nice and easy!

im not sure if its the same over there but in the uk the clio 2 with the K4M had a cat on the manifold, but meganes with the same engine didnt, i swapped over to the megane manifold and it seems to have given it a small power boost!

Razmann4k · Jan 9, 2024

Martin_172 said:
driveshafts should be fine id have thought, its only when you go 2.0 16v widetrack, no ABS is good as it makes a rear disc conversion nice and easy!

im not sure if its the same over there but in the uk the clio 2 with the K4M had a cat on the manifold, but meganes with the same engine didnt, i swapped over to the megane manifold and it seems to have given it a small power boost!
View attachment 1675432

Wow, looks like a much less restrictie manifold, even before the cat!

As for rear discs, no Clio 2s I've ever seen in person have had rear discs, would you happen to know if another model's discs, calipers, carriers and whatever else is needed would work?

Martin_172 · Jan 9, 2024

Razmann4k said:
Wow, looks like a much less restrictie manifold, even before the cat!

As for rear discs, no Clio 2s I've ever seen in person have had rear discs, would you happen to know if another model's discs, calipers, carriers and whatever else is needed would work?

yes in the UK/europe a 1.6 16v from 2004> had rear discs, as did all DCI 100 clios. and of course the 172/182

straight swap when no ABS is involved, just swap the rear stubs, calipers and discs with bearings. you then require a pair of rear disc handbrake cables and either make new brake lines or fit a set of rear beam lines from proline https://www.prolinebraidedlines.com/products/renault-clio-mk2-sport-172-182-rear-axle-lines

Razmann4k · Jan 10, 2024

Martin_172 said:
yes in the UK/europe a 1.6 16v from 2004> had rear discs, as did all DCI 100 clios. and of course the 172/182

straight swap when no ABS is involved, just swap the rear stubs, calipers and discs with bearings. you then require a pair of rear disc handbrake cables and either make new brake lines or fit a set of rear beam lines from proline https://www.prolinebraidedlines.com/products/renault-clio-mk2-sport-172-182-rear-axle-lines

Alright, thanks for the info, I wonder if any DCI 100 Clios came over here😅

Razmann4k · Aug 8, 2024

Martin_172 said:
my K4M Clio goes really well, with so little weight it doesn't feel much slower than my 197 lol

Front brake upgrade is nice and easy, I'm not sure if you need the hubs (id suspect you will) but other than that its an easy swap. just remember MOST solid disc cars I've come across had the 52mm front suspension bolt spacing and every 259mm car I've come across has had the 58mm, so may need the shocks too.

Hi again, it's been many months now. I just upgraded my brakes from 238mm solid to 259mm vented, and I didn't need the hubs (but I do have 58mm hubs on hand if I ever need them, bought them with the calipers/carriers all for about 21.50GBP secondhand)

And as it turns out, the car that these parts came off of was a 3-door 1.6 16V Ph2, so I guess I was wrong and the 1.6 Clio 2 did in fact make its way here! I also happened to run into a Monaco Blue Ph2 172 a couple months back, (seeing an actual 172 was a dream come true) had a good chat with the owner, and said there are actually a reasonable number of them in SA, so everything I thought I knew about Clio 2's in South Africa was wrong haha!

I saw none for sale on most regular car auction/private seller websites, but after hearing about this, I decided to look on FB Marketplace for s**ts and giggles, and I was pleasantly surprised to find about 6 or 7 for sale in a 1 month span, and the price was far lower than I expected (about 2000 - 3200GBP), my 1.4 8v would fetch around 1500GBP (I'm sure in the UK there's a bigger difference in price) so I'm sure you know what I'm thinking haha... save up for a bit and then goodbye 75bhp, hello 169bhp!

Razmann4k · Oct 28, 2024

Correction, my current hubs are 58mm, I had to change the front shocks and while doing that, I lowered the Clio. Will create a progress thread soon.

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What Engine Swaps are possible with a 2001 Clio 2 Ph1 RT Alize (1.4 8v K7J)

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