197 Brembo calipers rebuild- HELP! :(

ripp · Jun 17, 2024

So I just swapped the brackets left to right aaaand...
Still the same. I'm not touching it anymore (not with my own hands that is), I'm done for now. I'll see what the mechanics have to say.
I may have a noisy wheel bearing on the right side but I'm not sure, could be tyre noise? (Nankang ns2r in 16" size).
With the car lifted up the front wheels spin freely without distinctive bearing noise. Don't really think a lightly noisy bearing could cause this much squealing tbh.
I'll ask the mechanics to swap the rotors too, just for the sake of doing this. We'll see

Louis · Jun 17, 2024

I'd shove some £20 brembo pads in and see if it improves

ripp · Jun 18, 2024

Udder Nonce said:
I'd shove some £20 brembo pads in and see if it improves

I did that the first time I ran the calipers. I had some new Valeo OE pads that came with the purchase. They did the exact same noise, which is kinda odd considering it's a different material to the ds2500.

RSRowe · Jun 18, 2024

I'd switch the pads left to right now personally. Will only take you 15 mins.
Process of elimination

ripp · Jun 18, 2024

And the sound

Louis · Jun 18, 2024

ripp said:
And the sound
View attachment 1697768

So it's only when on the brakes? Sounds like any performance pad.

Retry the cheaper pads if you still have them and get them hot.

ripp · Jun 18, 2024

Udder Nonce said:
So it's only when on the brakes? Sounds like any performance pad.

Retry the cheaper pads if you still have them and get them hot.

Yeah only when light to moderate pedal pressure. If I get them hotter they squeak on hight pedal pressure also
Sounds like a performance pad yeah BUT-
-It only does it on the right side and it's LOUD
-Swapping pads will do nothing I'm 1000% sure and I'm not wasting any time with this as it's clearly a local problem, otherwise the left side would squeak too, maybe not as loud but still...
-I had various "performance pads" in the past- DS2500, EBC yellowstuff, ferodo DS performance. None of them used to squeak (std calipers though but still)
There are some blokes here that never had any noises with the 2500 pads on these brembo calipers
I'm slowly inclined to think it's the caliper itself at fault. I'll see what the guys at the garrage have to say about it

RSRowe · Jun 18, 2024

Udder Nonce said:
Sounds like any performance pad.

Agreed

Louis · Jun 18, 2024

ripp said:
Yeah only when light to moderate pedal pressure. If I get them hotter they squeak on hight pedal pressure also
Sounds like a performance pad yeah BUT-
-It only does it on the right side and it's LOUD
-Swapping pads will do nothing I'm 1000% sure and I'm not wasting any time with this as it's clearly a local problem, otherwise the left side would squeak too, maybe not as loud but still...
-I had various "performance pads" in the past- DS2500, EBC yellowstuff, ferodo DS performance. None of them used to squeak (std calipers though but still)
There are some blokes here that never had any noises with the 2500 pads on these brembo calipers
I'm slowly inclined to think it's the caliper itself at fault. I'll see what the guys at the garrage have to say about it

I ran ds1.11s for a short while and they sounded identical. Swapped to brembo pads and the problem disappeared.

ripp · Jun 18, 2024

Ph1 Tom said:
Never had DS2500 squealing, used them on a few cars with single piston, 4 piston and 6 piston callipers. With and without shims.

Have the callipers been machined correctly so that they sit in the correct position on the discs?

reminder^ there are some people that never experienced any nois on ds2500 pads, me included
I can expect some noise and seen noisy pads on other cars but not that loud and not on one side only.
I say it again- it did it on normal pads also, only on one side and no I'm not gonna buy 3 brands of cheap pads to confirm that, as I already ran the Valeo's

ripp · Jun 18, 2024

Udder Nonce said:
I ran ds1.11s for a short while and they sounded identical. Swapped to brembo pads and the problem disappeared.

DS1.11 are even more track oriented but did the noise came only from one side? if not I'm afraid it's not helping me

ripp · Jun 18, 2024

These are the Valeo pads I ran before, they have a backing plate and are chamfered on the edges. None of that helped as I said, exact same noise, exact same side.

Louis · Jun 18, 2024

I don't know what to suggest unfortunately. If you're adamant it's not the pads, and they're free to move evenly on the pins it can only be misalignment of the calipers from the brackets.

I'd expect the tolerance on the pad and pin to mitigate this though unless it'd VERY bad.

You could chuck some paint on the pad and go for a couple of stops down the road and look for even wear. I'd not suggest it on expensive pads, or for long term.

ripp · Jun 18, 2024

Udder Nonce said:
I don't know what to suggest unfortunately. If you're adamant it's not the pads, and they're free to move evenly on the pins it can only be misalignment of the calipers from the brackets.

I'd expect the tolerance on the pad and pin to mitigate this though unless it'd VERY bad.

You could chuck some paint on the pad and go for a couple of stops down the road and look for even wear. I'd not suggest it on expensive pads, or for long term.

Last night when I spapped the brackets I measured the alignment and on the right side thre seemed like half a mm of gap difference measured between the top and bottom bracket. I had a eureka moment and gladly swapped the brackets left to right, measured the left ones that I now installed on the right side and they were spot on.
The result is the same- squeak. I didn't even bothered to detail this as it made me very angry, I had expectations it will solve the problem but nope.
Pads move freely, I checked this everytime I worked on the calipers
I may try the paint trick on the Valeo pads and see, thx for the tip

TheBandit · Jun 18, 2024

Beauvais Motorsport · Jun 18, 2024

What discs are they and are you cleaning them between each pad change?

ripp · Jun 18, 2024

Beauvais Motorsport said:
What discs are they and are you cleaning them between each pad change?

Brembo max and yes with light sandpaper and brake degreaser

Brigsy · Jun 18, 2024

Swap discs and pads side to side.

Brigsy · Jun 18, 2024

Also listened to the vid and sounds normal for ferodo/track pads, especially from cold as not up to optimal temp.

ripp · Jun 18, 2024

Brigsy said:
Also listened to the vid and sounds normal for ferodo/track pads, especially from cold as not up to optimal temp.

When they're up to temp they scream even worse. I can live with some noise but trust me, real life is way worse than in the video. Also, being on one side points out to a problem. Will swap discs and pads altogether for sure. (although I bet my house it will be the same but have to check that also)

ripp · Jun 18, 2024

If I were to snap my fingers I'd put back the OE pads and show that the are just as noisy. Track or no track pad it is the same.

Mr Underhill · Jun 18, 2024

ripp · Nov 22, 2024

quick update:
Went to a trackday recently and after some brake pad material sticked to the discs the squeal was vastly improved, it only did it at a certain brake pedal pressure (above medium let's say) and only after the pads are a bit hot, sot not the first thing in the morning so I'm happy to report that in my case at least, some brake abuse kinda sorted it.
Good, that was couple of weeks ago and slowly that brake pad material is going away as I was street driving only and the squeal slowly started to come back (I was expecting this). As winter is coming so no trackdays for the following months is in sight I bought a set of OE brembo street pads to run them till spring.
As usual I am very meticulous on brake jobs, clean everything, use proper grease on contact points etc etc. The brembo pads also had a shim on the backing plate (as expected for a street pad). I also lightly sanded the discs and gave them a good clean.
Got in the car and I swear the first brake apply after 5 meters of driving gave a huge squeal. I almost started laughing alone in the parking lot. Anyway, went out for a little bed in session and yeah, they squealed, not as bad as the DS2500's but they did.
Will wait another couple hundred miles to settle in but I'm not making my hopes up. At least the brakes feel great right from the start as there's no need to build up heat in them.
Obviously I re-checked that all the bolts holding everything together were nice and tight and they were spot on.
To recap- I currently have 3 sets of pads - The Valeo OE ones, the DS2500s and now the Brembo OE pads. Brembo max 280mm discs that are fitted this year, so little wear on them, they're not warped or have any unusual wear marks on. Everything looks spot on
Except from the bloody squeal

Louis · Nov 22, 2024

ripp said:
quick update:
Went to a trackday recently and after some brake pad material sticked to the discs the squeal was vastly improved, it only did it at a certain brake pedal pressure (above medium let's say) and only after the pads are a bit hot, sot not the first thing in the morning so I'm happy to report that in my case at least, some brake abuse kinda sorted it.
Good, that was couple of weeks ago and slowly that brake pad material is going away as I was street driving only and the squeal slowly started to come back (I was expecting this). As winter is coming so no trackdays for the following months is in sight I bought a set of OE brembo street pads to run them till spring.
As usual I am very meticulous on brake jobs, clean everything, use proper grease on contact points etc etc. The brembo pads also had a shim on the backing plate (as expected for a street pad). I also lightly sanded the discs and gave them a good clean.
Got in the car and I swear the first brake apply after 5 meters of driving gave a huge squeal. I almost started laughing alone in the parking lot. Anyway, went out for a little bed in session and yeah, they squealed, not as bad as the DS2500's but they did.
Will wait another couple hundred miles to settle in but I'm not making my hopes up. At least the brakes feel great right from the start as there's no need to build up heat in them.
Obviously I re-checked that all the bolts holding everything together were nice and tight and they were spot on.
To recap- I currently have 3 sets of pads - The Valeo OE ones, the DS2500s and now the Brembo OE pads. Brembo max 280mm discs that are fitted this year, so little wear on them, they're not warped or have any unusual wear marks on. Everything looks spot on
Except from the bloody squeal

Id not realised they were grooved discs. This won't be helping things realistically.

The pads won't squeal after a while.

Or buy my calipers 👀

ripp · Nov 22, 2024

I was thinking about the wilwood kit but I got the brembo calipers at a good price so...

ripp · Nov 23, 2024

Done a few extra miles and yeah, they squeak like all the other pads before. I don't really understand why that's not a common issue among others that run this setup. And what's different in my setup compared to others that have no noise. It's mega annoying, everyone on the street looks at me like I'm an idiot with a broken car ffs

Louis · Nov 23, 2024

ripp said:
Done a few extra miles and yeah, they squeak like all the other pads before. I don't really understand why that's not a common issue among others that run this setup. And what's different in my setup compared to others that have no noise. It's mega annoying, everyone on the street looks at me like I'm an idiot with a broken car ffs

Next step is trying HC discs tbh

Brigsy · Nov 23, 2024

Change them caliper brackets for a decent machined ones i.e. pms or similar and check the caliper is central to the disc.

ripp · Nov 26, 2024

Brigsy said:
Change them caliper brackets for a decent machined ones i.e. pms or similar and check the caliper is central to the disc.

will do that for sure but the calipers seem centered, I took some measures and it looks all good and straight.

ripp · Nov 26, 2024

Louis said:
Next step is trying HC discs tbh

after I burn these max ones I may revert to plain discs again who knows. But first I'll try another set of adapters like others suggested

ripp · Nov 29, 2024

Meanwhile I took a closer look at the DS2500 pads that I recently removed to see if I can find any clues to the noise. And I found that the inside pad from the right caliper is worn unevenly, as if one piston is pressing harder on it than the other on that particular side.
Also at the moment the noise is coming from the right only- I asked a friend to drive by slowly so I can listen and is clear one sided now...
I will take apart the calper one more time (although I don't really want to) and swap the two pistons from that side one with the other and add new inner seals and see if anything changes.
If it does than it means that rebuilding these is rather more complicated than it seems, as you can get some seals that are tighter or looser than the others, thus creating visible differences in the way the pistons work.
I did encounter this when I did the initial rebuild, I had one of the pistons refuse to go inside the caliper- turned out it had the inner seal out of spec- it was thicker than the others and with the naked eye you coldn't see it.
Of course you have to make sure that everything is clean and free of debris inside where the seal sits (which I did) and make sure all the pistons go inside with ease.
Looks like one of them is "lazy" and doesn't apply enough pressure on the pad, creating that uneven wear. I may also have some air in the caliper? I don't know. I'll redo the job on that caliper and keep you posted.
Will also get new brackets but for now that's the plan
Hopefully at the end we'll have some useful info

Louis · Nov 29, 2024

ripp said:
Meanwhile I took a closer look at the DS2500 pads that I recently removed to see if I can find any clues to the noise. And I found that the inside pad from the right caliper is worn unevenly, as if one piston is pressing harder on it than the other on that particular side.
Also at the moment the noise is coming from the right only- I asked a friend to drive by slowly so I can listen and is clear one sided now...
I will take apart the calper one more time (although I don't really want to) and swap the two pistons from that side one with the other and add new inner seals and see if anything changes.
If it does than it means that rebuilding these is rather more complicated than it seems, as you can get some seals that are tighter or looser than the others, thus creating visible differences in the way the pistons work.
I did encounter this when I did the initial rebuild, I had one of the pistons refuse to go inside the caliper- turned out it had the inner seal out of spec- it was thicker than the others and with the naked eye you coldn't see it.
Of course you have to make sure that everything is clean and free of debris inside where the seal sits (which I did) and make sure all the pistons go inside with ease.
Looks like one of them is "lazy" and doesn't apply enough pressure on the pad, creating that uneven wear. I may also have some air in the caliper? I don't know. I'll redo the job on that caliper and keep you posted.
Will also get new brackets but for now that's the plan
Hopefully at the end we'll have some useful info

Just buy my calipers and be done with it. Rebuilt 15k miles ago on stainless @Clio_fool brackets.

Clio_fool · Nov 29, 2024

Louis said:
Just buy my calipers and be done with it. Rebuilt 15k miles ago on stainless @Clio_fool brackets.

They aren't stainless but they were zinc plated to prevent corrosion. Those aluminum ones someone on Facebook did that just crumbled 😱.

bozothenutter · Dec 17, 2024

Clio_fool said:
They aren't stainless but they were zinc plated to prevent corrosion. Those aluminum ones someone on Facebook did that just crumbled 😱.

wish someone would do ceramic ones.....

ian-speedy · Dec 17, 2024

Sounds like pad vibration to me , maybe the calipers have some wear in them where the pads slide in , apply some ceratec paste along the ends of the pads , and put a circle of it where the pistons touch , it's a high temp paste that goes off slightly holding the pads firmer in the calipers , you did fit the spring clips that fit between the pads and pins , without these it will give you squeal , if they are fitted , take them out and bend them so they are tighter going under the pins , this will also hold the pads firmer in the calipers.
You will get the pads wearing uneven with hard use as the pistons in the Brembo calipers are all the same size , usually you get a smaller leading piston to reduce the pressure slightly on the leading edge of the pads
As others have said , it could be the brackets you have , we have always used a one piece bracket on all our kits , I can see why they have done it on the 280mm kit as there is very little room to fit a bracket , but it could be the bracket is not rigid enough and causing vibration
Our brackets are made of steel for extra strength on our 300mm kit

Clio 2 RS Brackets for 300mm Brembo clio 197 caliper Conversion

Clio 2 RS Brackets for clio 197 Brembo caliper ConversionThe bracket kit we have made, are made of steel and are plated black, and comes with the bolts to fit the calipers to the brackets, and brackets to the hubs, These are to use the 300mm discs with the Clio 3 Calipers

godspeedbrakes.co.uk

Hope this helps
Cheers Ian

Louis · Dec 17, 2024

bozothenutter said:
wish someone would do ceramic ones.....

Ceramic brackets? They'd crack instantly 😂

Clio owners are also poor and don't want to spend money.

ripp · Wednesday at 5:43 PM

ian-speedy said:
Sounds like pad vibration to me , maybe the calipers have some wear in them where the pads slide in , apply some ceratec paste along the ends of the pads , and put a circle of it where the pistons touch , it's a high temp paste that goes off slightly holding the pads firmer in the calipers , you did fit the spring clips that fit between the pads and pins , without these it will give you squeal , if they are fitted , take them out and bend them so they are tighter going under the pins , this will also hold the pads firmer in the calipers.
You will get the pads wearing uneven with hard use as the pistons in the Brembo calipers are all the same size , usually you get a smaller leading piston to reduce the pressure slightly on the leading edge of the pads
As others have said , it could be the brackets you have , we have always used a one piece bracket on all our kits , I can see why they have done it on the 280mm kit as there is very little room to fit a bracket , but it could be the bracket is not rigid enough and causing vibration
Our brackets are made of steel for extra strength on our 300mm kit

Clio 2 RS Brackets for 300mm Brembo clio 197 caliper Conversion

Clio 2 RS Brackets for clio 197 Brembo caliper ConversionThe bracket kit we have made, are made of steel and are plated black, and comes with the bolts to fit the calipers to the brackets, and brackets to the hubs, These are to use the 300mm discs with the Clio 3 Calipers

godspeedbrakes.co.uk

Hope this helps
Cheers Ian

I always apply ceratec on all contact points but that didn't help. When I'll get some proper brackets I'll do the spring clip trick that you said, but I'm hoping the brackets are the issue here and once I get new ones I'll get rid of this
Thx!

ripp · Thursday at 10:39 AM

Louis said:
Ceramic brackets? They'd crack instantly 😂

Clio owners are also poor and don't want to spend money.

wild guess is that ceramic brackets was a joke

bozothenutter · Saturday at 9:10 AM

Louis said:
Ceramic brackets? They'd crack instantly 😂

Clio owners are also poor and don't want to spend money.

Pistons man, pistons....🤣

197 Brembo calipers rebuild- HELP! :(

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