197 Brembo calipers rebuild- HELP! :(

[ripp]

So I just swapped the brackets left to right aaaand...
Still the same. I'm not touching it anymore (not with my own hands that is), I'm done for now. I'll see what the mechanics have to say.
I may have a noisy wheel bearing on the right side but I'm not sure, could be tyre noise? (Nankang ns2r in 16" size).
With the car lifted up the front wheels spin freely without distinctive bearing noise. Don't really think a lightly noisy bearing could cause this much squealing tbh.
I'll ask the mechanics to swap the rotors too, just for the sake of doing this. We'll see

 

[Louis]

I'd shove some £20 brembo pads in and see if it improves

 

[ripp]

I'd shove some £20 brembo pads in and see if it improves

I did that the first time I ran the calipers. I had some new Valeo OE pads that came with the purchase. They did the exact same noise, which is kinda odd considering it's a different material to the ds2500.

 

[RSRowe]

I'd switch the pads left to right now personally. Will only take you 15 mins.
Process of elimination

 

[ripp]

And the sound

 

[Louis]

And the sound
View attachment 1697768

So it's only when on the brakes? Sounds like any performance pad.

Retry the cheaper pads if you still have them and get them hot.

 

[ripp]

So it's only when on the brakes? Sounds like any performance pad.

Retry the cheaper pads if you still have them and get them hot.

Yeah only when light to moderate pedal pressure. If I get them hotter they squeak on hight pedal pressure also
Sounds like a performance pad yeah BUT-
-It only does it on the right side and it's LOUD
-Swapping pads will do nothing I'm 1000% sure and I'm not wasting any time with this as it's clearly a local problem, otherwise the left side would squeak too, maybe not as loud but still...
-I had various "performance pads" in the past- DS2500, EBC yellowstuff, ferodo DS performance. None of them used to squeak (std calipers though but still)
There are some blokes here that never had any noises with the 2500 pads on these brembo calipers
I'm slowly inclined to think it's the caliper itself at fault. I'll see what the guys at the garrage have to say about it

 

[RSRowe]

Sounds like any performance pad.

Agreed

 

[Louis]

Yeah only when light to moderate pedal pressure. If I get them hotter they squeak on hight pedal pressure also
Sounds like a performance pad yeah BUT-
-It only does it on the right side and it's LOUD
-Swapping pads will do nothing I'm 1000% sure and I'm not wasting any time with this as it's clearly a local problem, otherwise the left side would squeak too, maybe not as loud but still...
-I had various "performance pads" in the past- DS2500, EBC yellowstuff, ferodo DS performance. None of them used to squeak (std calipers though but still)
There are some blokes here that never had any noises with the 2500 pads on these brembo calipers
I'm slowly inclined to think it's the caliper itself at fault. I'll see what the guys at the garrage have to say about it

I ran ds1.11s for a short while and they sounded identical. Swapped to brembo pads and the problem disappeared.

 

[ripp]

Never had DS2500 squealing, used them on a few cars with single piston, 4 piston and 6 piston callipers. With and without shims.

Have the callipers been machined correctly so that they sit in the correct position on the discs?

reminder^ there are some people that never experienced any nois on ds2500 pads, me included
I can expect some noise and seen noisy pads on other cars but not that loud and not on one side only.
I say it again- it did it on normal pads also, only on one side and no I'm not gonna buy 3 brands of cheap pads to confirm that, as I already ran the Valeo's

 

[ripp]

I ran ds1.11s for a short while and they sounded identical. Swapped to brembo pads and the problem disappeared.

DS1.11 are even more track oriented but did the noise came only from one side? if not I'm afraid it's not helping me

 

[ripp]

These are the Valeo pads I ran before, they have a backing plate and are chamfered on the edges. None of that helped as I said, exact same noise, exact same side.

 

[Louis]

I don't know what to suggest unfortunately. If you're adamant it's not the pads, and they're free to move evenly on the pins it can only be misalignment of the calipers from the brackets.

I'd expect the tolerance on the pad and pin to mitigate this though unless it'd VERY bad.

You could chuck some paint on the pad and go for a couple of stops down the road and look for even wear. I'd not suggest it on expensive pads, or for long term.

 

[ripp]

I don't know what to suggest unfortunately. If you're adamant it's not the pads, and they're free to move evenly on the pins it can only be misalignment of the calipers from the brackets.

I'd expect the tolerance on the pad and pin to mitigate this though unless it'd VERY bad.

You could chuck some paint on the pad and go for a couple of stops down the road and look for even wear. I'd not suggest it on expensive pads, or for long term.

Last night when I spapped the brackets I measured the alignment and on the right side thre seemed like half a mm of gap difference measured between the top and bottom bracket. I had a eureka moment and gladly swapped the brackets left to right, measured the left ones that I now installed on the right side and they were spot on.
The result is the same- squeak. I didn't even bothered to detail this as it made me very angry, I had expectations it will solve the problem but nope.
Pads move freely, I checked this everytime I worked on the calipers
I may try the paint trick on the Valeo pads and see, thx for the tip

 

[TheBandit]

.

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

What discs are they and are you cleaning them between each pad change?

 

[ripp]

What discs are they and are you cleaning them between each pad change?

Brembo max and yes with light sandpaper and brake degreaser

 

[Brigsy]

Swap discs and pads side to side.

 

[Brigsy]

Also listened to the vid and sounds normal for ferodo/track pads, especially from cold as not up to optimal temp.

 

[ripp]

Also listened to the vid and sounds normal for ferodo/track pads, especially from cold as not up to optimal temp.

When they're up to temp they scream even worse. I can live with some noise but trust me, real life is way worse than in the video. Also, being on one side points out to a problem. Will swap discs and pads altogether for sure. (although I bet my house it will be the same but have to check that also)

 

[ripp]

If I were to snap my fingers I'd put back the OE pads and show that the are just as noisy. Track or no track pad it is the same.

 

[Mr Underhill]

 

[ripp]

quick update:
Went to a trackday recently and after some brake pad material sticked to the discs the squeal was vastly improved, it only did it at a certain brake pedal pressure (above medium let's say) and only after the pads are a bit hot, sot not the first thing in the morning so I'm happy to report that in my case at least, some brake abuse kinda sorted it.
Good, that was couple of weeks ago and slowly that brake pad material is going away as I was street driving only and the squeal slowly started to come back (I was expecting this). As winter is coming so no trackdays for the following months is in sight I bought a set of OE brembo street pads to run them till spring.
As usual I am very meticulous on brake jobs, clean everything, use proper grease on contact points etc etc. The brembo pads also had a shim on the backing plate (as expected for a street pad). I also lightly sanded the discs and gave them a good clean.
Got in the car and I swear the first brake apply after 5 meters of driving gave a huge squeal. I almost started laughing alone in the parking lot. Anyway, went out for a little bed in session and yeah, they squealed, not as bad as the DS2500's but they did.
Will wait another couple hundred miles to settle in but I'm not making my hopes up. At least the brakes feel great right from the start as there's no need to build up heat in them.
Obviously I re-checked that all the bolts holding everything together were nice and tight and they were spot on.
To recap- I currently have 3 sets of pads - The Valeo OE ones, the DS2500s and now the Brembo OE pads. Brembo max 280mm discs that are fitted this year, so little wear on them, they're not warped or have any unusual wear marks on. Everything looks spot on
Except from the bloody squeal

 

[Louis]

quick update:
Went to a trackday recently and after some brake pad material sticked to the discs the squeal was vastly improved, it only did it at a certain brake pedal pressure (above medium let's say) and only after the pads are a bit hot, sot not the first thing in the morning so I'm happy to report that in my case at least, some brake abuse kinda sorted it.
Good, that was couple of weeks ago and slowly that brake pad material is going away as I was street driving only and the squeal slowly started to come back (I was expecting this). As winter is coming so no trackdays for the following months is in sight I bought a set of OE brembo street pads to run them till spring.
As usual I am very meticulous on brake jobs, clean everything, use proper grease on contact points etc etc. The brembo pads also had a shim on the backing plate (as expected for a street pad). I also lightly sanded the discs and gave them a good clean.
Got in the car and I swear the first brake apply after 5 meters of driving gave a huge squeal. I almost started laughing alone in the parking lot. Anyway, went out for a little bed in session and yeah, they squealed, not as bad as the DS2500's but they did.
Will wait another couple hundred miles to settle in but I'm not making my hopes up. At least the brakes feel great right from the start as there's no need to build up heat in them.
Obviously I re-checked that all the bolts holding everything together were nice and tight and they were spot on.
To recap- I currently have 3 sets of pads - The Valeo OE ones, the DS2500s and now the Brembo OE pads. Brembo max 280mm discs that are fitted this year, so little wear on them, they're not warped or have any unusual wear marks on. Everything looks spot on
Except from the bloody squeal

Id not realised they were grooved discs. This won't be helping things realistically.

The pads won't squeal after a while.

Or buy my calipers 👀

 

[ripp]

I was thinking about the wilwood kit but I got the brembo calipers at a good price so...

 

[ripp]

Done a few extra miles and yeah, they squeak like all the other pads before. I don't really understand why that's not a common issue among others that run this setup. And what's different in my setup compared to others that have no noise. It's mega annoying, everyone on the street looks at me like I'm an idiot with a broken car ffs

 

[Louis]

Done a few extra miles and yeah, they squeak like all the other pads before. I don't really understand why that's not a common issue among others that run this setup. And what's different in my setup compared to others that have no noise. It's mega annoying, everyone on the street looks at me like I'm an idiot with a broken car ffs

Next step is trying HC discs tbh

 

[Brigsy]

Change them caliper brackets for a decent machined ones i.e. pms or similar and check the caliper is central to the disc.

 

[ripp]

Change them caliper brackets for a decent machined ones i.e. pms or similar and check the caliper is central to the disc.

will do that for sure but the calipers seem centered, I took some measures and it looks all good and straight.

 

[ripp]

Next step is trying HC discs tbh

after I burn these max ones I may revert to plain discs again who knows. But first I'll try another set of adapters like others suggested

 

[ripp]

Meanwhile I took a closer look at the DS2500 pads that I recently removed to see if I can find any clues to the noise. And I found that the inside pad from the right caliper is worn unevenly, as if one piston is pressing harder on it than the other on that particular side.
Also at the moment the noise is coming from the right only- I asked a friend to drive by slowly so I can listen and is clear one sided now...
I will take apart the calper one more time (although I don't really want to) and swap the two pistons from that side one with the other and add new inner seals and see if anything changes.
If it does than it means that rebuilding these is rather more complicated than it seems, as you can get some seals that are tighter or looser than the others, thus creating visible differences in the way the pistons work.
I did encounter this when I did the initial rebuild, I had one of the pistons refuse to go inside the caliper- turned out it had the inner seal out of spec- it was thicker than the others and with the naked eye you coldn't see it.
Of course you have to make sure that everything is clean and free of debris inside where the seal sits (which I did) and make sure all the pistons go inside with ease.
Looks like one of them is "lazy" and doesn't apply enough pressure on the pad, creating that uneven wear. I may also have some air in the caliper? I don't know. I'll redo the job on that caliper and keep you posted.
Will also get new brackets but for now that's the plan
Hopefully at the end we'll have some useful info

 

[Louis]

Meanwhile I took a closer look at the DS2500 pads that I recently removed to see if I can find any clues to the noise. And I found that the inside pad from the right caliper is worn unevenly, as if one piston is pressing harder on it than the other on that particular side.
Also at the moment the noise is coming from the right only- I asked a friend to drive by slowly so I can listen and is clear one sided now...
I will take apart the calper one more time (although I don't really want to) and swap the two pistons from that side one with the other and add new inner seals and see if anything changes.
If it does than it means that rebuilding these is rather more complicated than it seems, as you can get some seals that are tighter or looser than the others, thus creating visible differences in the way the pistons work.
I did encounter this when I did the initial rebuild, I had one of the pistons refuse to go inside the caliper- turned out it had the inner seal out of spec- it was thicker than the others and with the naked eye you coldn't see it.
Of course you have to make sure that everything is clean and free of debris inside where the seal sits (which I did) and make sure all the pistons go inside with ease.
Looks like one of them is "lazy" and doesn't apply enough pressure on the pad, creating that uneven wear. I may also have some air in the caliper? I don't know. I'll redo the job on that caliper and keep you posted.
Will also get new brackets but for now that's the plan
Hopefully at the end we'll have some useful info

Just buy my calipers and be done with it. Rebuilt 15k miles ago on stainless @Clio_fool brackets.

 

[Clio_fool]

Just buy my calipers and be done with it. Rebuilt 15k miles ago on stainless @Clio_fool brackets.

They aren't stainless but they were zinc plated to prevent corrosion. Those aluminum ones someone on Facebook did that just crumbled 😱.