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They won't go as extreme as the r26r, as a lot of people said at the time, finding people that will buy a fwd, impractical car over an Exige etc was always going to be difficult. More likely down the Trophy route I would of thought.

He's partially sighted

Trophy spoiler (V6 Trophy, not 182 Trophy)

Ahhhhh. How long since it saw daylight? Will be epic. Oneday;).

Going to have the best of both worlds.

Each to their own. As said, it doesn't do anything for me. No current hot-hatch really does.

Why? I bought 2 of my 5 Rs's new. I wouldn't want one, they do nothing for me.

I genuinely wouldn't.

Utter balls. You have to be a fair whack quicker to overtake a car, all the RS's are pretty similar in a straight line. Certainly not going to be overtaking a healthy example.

Nicest 197 I've seen.

True.

I said the R26 has better feel:dead:.

The system works better with the LSD. Exerts force on the steering, which brings some feel back.

You should be;). It is amazing that every objective article about the 197 has it as a wee bit slower than the 182. And every owner has one thats quicker.

As I posted earlier in the thread, they aren't slow, but they don't feel as rapid.

Then why don't people man up and say that! Can't argue with that, it's far more refined. Refinement isn't a concern at all for me, never has been as long as the cars good to drive and feelsome. My car's bumpy, loud, poorly built. Great fun though.

Um, you're answering your own question? I didn't ask why it was fitted, merely pointed out that it's one of the reasons for the lack of steering feel. Didn't realise it held such a traction advantage. Can we add better traction as one of the reasons for the 197 lapping slower ;).

Thats exactly my point. People are raving about the 197's handling, saying it's a massive step up. Please, someone explain to me how a car that's a big step forward in handling, as quick in a straight line, and better under braking, isn't a chunk quicker on track?

Doesn't answer the question lol.

I'm pretty sure you won't agree it's conclusive until a 197 is timed as faster:dead:. Put it this way, if the 197 was 2 secs a lap quicker than a Trophy, it wouldn't make it the better drive. I've only seen 2 direct comparisons of the 197 and Trophy, the evo lap times and the PC magazine article.

Because why spend the cash on development when the 225 and 197 front ends are nigh on identical? If feel was a concern, electric systems would of been binned, but economy wins out.

Ps the 182cup and Trophy times were set on different days. The Trophy v 197cup were timed on the same day, same driver, consecutive laps. Pretty conclusive. Regardless of the speed, the Trophy's more fun to drive. Less refined, noisier, etc. But I'll put up with those for a more responsive...

Finally, someone admitting that the 197 is slower than the 182! I've always said the 182 is more fun to drive.

Would make sense, the systems are similar bar the diff.

Nice on on the trader at the moment, as well as an ultra blue r26.

Fair enough, if you believe the Trophy drives the same as a 172, you're in no position to judge! 197 owners are ace. If I'm understanding things correctly, the 197 is far better handling, better under braking (true) and just as quick in a straight line. So 197 boys, how does the Trophy manage to...

Guy on Rsport is adamant that the lack of steering feel is due to the revo-knuckle style set-up, completely isolating the torque from the steering. Hence why the electric system on the R26 feels so much better.

1*2's and 197's don't need the revo-knuckle style hub, as they don't have the torque of the 225's. It's the very reason the steering is so lacking in feel.

I was being cheeky. Those are C Harris' comments about the Trophy:o http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Renault-Clio-2.0-Renaultsport-182-Trophy/216093/

FFS, they were the earlier versions. The Trophy drives very differently to a 172.