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172 & Golf TDI ( 150 brake )





As an all rounder what would be the better car? Course they are very different propositions, but which would you choose? The out and out performance of the clio or the Huuuge massive splattering of torque in the golf?



Jeff
 


is the tdi quicker than the gti?? by my experience it seems so, just wonderin bout other peeps views!?
 


there are so many different gtis in the golf range now tho!! i think VW are seriously underselling 0-62mph time of 8.6 seconds...
 
  Corsa 1.3 CDTI


Doesnt the GTi (X reg) upward have about 115 bhp in standard form (Non turbo base model) so I guess the TDI PDI 150 would kill it with bags of torque.

As to the 172 and Golf, One is hot hatch the other is a luke warm hatch really now marketed at the older person (IMHO). I would imagine the the Golf is a solid reliable and economical car where as the 172 is quick juicey and not the best build quality, having said that though try taking a set of twisty in the golf and watch that baby list back and foward.

On the superchips site though by chipping the VW Tdi Pdi 150 golf you can get an additional 30bhp so 180bhp out of a diesel with bags of torque now ya talking.

Horses for course guys..
 

Tom

  EV


also a seat cupra version of that engine is comming with 180bhp (16v heads)

chippable to 200bhp plus?

i think so

oh dear so 238lb/ft+ torque and 200bhp?

focus rs land me thinks

diesel is coming be aware!!

(ps i hate diesel engines)
 


Cool just thinking of a 172 - quick, nice amount of standard equipment, decent re-sale value, sweet car..



Golf tdi 150 diesel - 236 lb/ft torque, easily tuneable, can get 19s on it without a problem, big boot...more sensible option i suppose..





Arrrgh! cant decide!! wot to buy??
 


chip in some comments from me

Standard form 172 is gonna be faster anyday. A 150Tdi is about the same as a petrol Gti probably coz of the rev limiter n so forth. It will feel heaps quicker htan the petrol GTi coz of the torque.

I think tunability. Turbo of coz have hte advantage but petrol turbo can be played around to. 285 on 1.8T with some kit from Germany or USA.

Golf doesnt offer hack alot of standards compare to172 (in NZ anyway) Golf seems to hold up their resales quite well here i dont know if that applies to u guys.

If u r lookin to do some track or very sporty driving. NO GOLF (I own a golf 4 too) 172 all the way. Build wise Golf is much better.

If u want refinement, comfort, build quality, ECONOMY (diesel doesnt drink much) then GOLF go for it , its still a very good car. (suspension on Golf even with factory sport kit (non standard) its still soft compare to stadnard 172 suspension) Golf suspension tends to loose itself when the road get uncertain,... kind of like runnin out of sequence

172 not so refine, not as big, not as well built but quicker in standard form, its good handling car for a Front wheel drive. Its more FUN :D.

Diesel is also much louder especially those 1.9L Tdi engines they seem to bring out that diesel sound very well. (bad if u dont like it haha)

hope that help

if u really want a sporty golf .. then u are payin as much as a Clio V6 in the R32 Golf form
 


its rather loud in the golf as well ! annoyin. Golf diesel is not bad but compare to BMW is not so refine either. Go drive both then u will know wut u want ... drive ur usual style
 


Usual style? u mean foot to the floor in 1st , 2nd and 3rd then slide around a corner ridoing the wave of torque????



that sounds like me ...
 


haha Golf got more torque but less "up there" power like the 172 . Golf is more like a cruiser really n 172 is a hot hatch
 


i think they can squeeze 180hp i think reachin 200 requires a k04 turbo (not too sure) in a petrol pushin from 150 to 200 requires a chip n exhaust..... but 235 require a bigger turbo. ahha imagine 298lb/ft scrambling in the wet yipee:p lots of traction control comin in.... Golf traction control tends to come in rather early too i made my V6 4 motion scramble for traction control.. wasnt even anythin i could really feel. Fun Killer. gotta turn them off.

Jeff check out; http://www.oettinger.comwww.oettinger.com they are a german company who does some mods even for diesel if i remember correctly. But very expensive their mods.

If u r moddin n lookin for lots of power..... i reckon a 1.8Gti is a better buy if u want a golf..... can extract more power from petrol..... the torque..... u need find someone who specialise in torque tuning..... some guy in NZ their WRX only puts out 400hp but freakin 800NM of torque in comparison ..... he uses it as a drift car
 


i think the two cars power delivery is completely opposite each other..... it really depends on wut u want jeff........ Golf is pretty much a straight line from 1900rpm to 3500 or so with max torque. While 172 is more linear the higher u go the more u get.
 


cool site that , cheers mate... some wicked upgrades - big power hikes for diesels...

I think its gonna be a case of heart ruling head or maybe vice versa :)



I want the chuckability and performance of the 172 in a very comfortable , biggish car... Maybe an R32 golf is a better choice hehehe too expensive!
 


GT TDi is a quickish motor. But in just the same way that a car like the Clio 16v has a limited power band, so too does the TDi 150. That means that its great at lower revs and for the first burst of overtaking, but in my experience a high-revs car will really leave it standing overall.

Im always surprised by their pace on the Mways and just how quickly they can get behind you. But as soon as you drop a cog and give it some revs, they soon disappear.

Then, of course, comes the back road ability problems of a Mk4 Golf.

I wouldnt really compare the 172 with any Golf. Bigger car, supposedly focused on luxury - overpriced and mainly have a reputation due to their customer base in my opinion.
 


Quote: Originally posted by Jeff XSi on 11 November 2002


Cool just thinking of a 172 - quick, nice amount of standard equipment, decent re-sale value, sweet car..



Golf tdi 150 diesel - 236 lb/ft torque, easily tuneable, can get 19s on it without a problem, big boot...more sensible option i suppose..





Arrrgh! cant decide!! wot to buy??
Dont buy a new 172 youll lose a fortune, I paid £9k for a feb/02 Mk2 with 5k on the clock!!!
 


yeh R32 is suppose to be pretty good see if i can snatch a drive when it arrives. Its pretty much on par with V6 clio pricing .

Yes power band way too short cuts out at 4000rpm. and Golf is big no no for goin fast in Mountain roads n stuff without modifications to the suspension coz u might roll of the hill with the tremendous body roll hahah
 


Remember kiddies, the R32 is the FIRST of a new line of "Hot Golfs", speaking to a VW dealer friend of mine, he says VW are releasing 2 more Golfs before the launch of the 5th generation Golf, one at least will have the 4.0L W8 275bhp lump coupled to the 4motion system of the Passat. Mmmmm
 


Quote: Originally posted by Ben H on 11 November 2002


GT TDi is a quickish motor. But in just the same way that a car like the Clio 16v has a limited power band, so too does the TDi 150. That means that its great at lower revs and for the first burst of overtaking, but in my experience a high-revs car will really leave it standing overall.

Im always surprised by their pace on the Mways and just how quickly they can get behind you. But as soon as you drop a cog and give it some revs, they soon disappear.

Then, of course, comes the back road ability problems of a Mk4 Golf.

I wouldnt really compare the 172 with any Golf. Bigger car, supposedly focused on luxury - overpriced and mainly have a reputation due to their customer base in my opinion.
Ben I can only say forget other cars you mention, drive the 150bhp Golf unless you alredy havent its a stormer . It really is THAT good. Im also not sure what you mean by the VW customer quote.
 


i m not so sure with the W8 Golf eveyrone talked about it but I looked at my engine bay n I also drove a W8 n checked out its engine... i reckon they need to knock the firewall down to fit it in.. they were sayin the 5th generation will be "ok" fit. Also VW is plannin to ditch the W8 for the next passat coz it wont fit ahha strange they r movin to another VR6. n the W8 is gonna be used in the Phateons. or Toureag thing.

I think R32 willl be the last of 4th generation golf coz they are startin to move up the specs like better radio, nicer seats, automatic this n that... so i guess they are preparing for the last run on it already.

R32 is quite a hefty price tag already if they have the W8 golf no one is gonna buy it (well some) coz it will push it even higher to be on par with those W8 Passats or A4s. Unless they r made as "very veyr very limited edition" which R32 is suppose to be "very limited"
 


Paranoia: By the customer quote I mean that VW and the Golf continue to have sales success in my opinion due to brand/image/reliability perceptions among their customer base. Admittedly, the 150bhp TD cant be had yet in Skoda or SEAT flavour, but I find that it is the VW buyer that is quickest to turm their nose up at a SEAT or Skoda - unaware that they are buying a very similar car! The Golf is not, contrary to popular myth, an exclusive machine. It was the worlds No.1 selling car in 2001.

The TDi 150 is a real breakthrough. I dont question that. I don t think that it rivals the real hot hatch establishment yet (mainly becuase of the chassis the engine is in), although diesels like it quite obviously have a future. My money would be on a TDi SEAT Ibiza - 130bhp motor, enough to pull 0-60 in 8 secs and a £4000 saving: which seems better than the Golf to me (albeit a bigger car).

And how do I know? Becuase my mum has a TDi 150 as a company car.
 


Someone mentioned not to buy a new 172 because of the steep depreciation... Is an 12K import the same? And will it be able to be serviced/ warranty work carried out at a local Reno dealer??
 


I think Ben we may see the TDi 150 as the pioneer for hot diesels, never before would any discurning performance car driver be seen driving a diesel but through some clever VW marketing this car is becoming trendy. It wont be long before other manufacturers home in on the untapped potential of the Hot Diesel and we see group tests of appearing in our car mags.

Theyre already making an impact on race circuits and rally stages. This oil-burner smoked its way into the record books last month at Thruxton grabbing the 1st UK victory for a diesel car, and to prove it wasnt a fluke it went out and kicked the oppositions arse a second time.
 


hey i m gonna see the Golf Diesel rally car in NZ this weekend its comin for a show. Also just off the topic. I just read the VW W12 power plant produces 90% of its 420hp at just 1800 rpm..................... WOWWWWWWWWWWWWW

nuts how can u get such a massive hp outin at 1800rpm

Lets just put the golf n 172 in to prospective again. Golf a more refine, civilise, cruise car. 172 a car with a eager engine, sportier suspension less comfortable not as great to cruise cmopare to the golf.

There u go if u want to cruise get the Golf Tdi it comes with 6 speed so when u are doin the cruisin speed u shouldnt really hear any rumblin from the diesel motor its probably around 1500rpm or so.

If u want a chuckable car get the 172 :p! For me get both hehe its definately much more comfortable behind a golf but u feel like u can chuck the 172 around any corners but the golf .. i feel personally just no where near as fun.
 


coz i own 2, one 1.6 my first car and a V6 4 motion but sold that one coz of insurance. I drive them all coz I m one of their "better" customers coz my parents are thinkin about those W8s n I am always spottin for the best golf so I became the royal customer haaha I usually just take another golf home when i m servicin or havin somethin done so the whole place knows me....

actually u know those 2.0L golfs.... if u r not lookin for anythin special just some solid german cars they are pretty good. surprisingly good torque. V5 sounds nice n goes nicely, 1.8Ts they r ok 4th n 5th gear u dont gain much but tones of room for mods, n V6 I can drive around town in 6th gear doin 45kms (around 25miles? i dont know) n still gain speed after 200kms uphill. i think thats where the bigger capacity comes in to play.... BUT!! All VW stock engines ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS run out of breath high up into the RPM.
 


Paranoia I use to be a Golf freak coz that was my first car. Now I like to have more fun in 172 just becoz of its rawness :p I guess i m not old enough to enjoy the refinement just yet. i dont know a heck lot about golfs but i surely know more than some sales :p
 


Quote: Originally posted by cyue005 on 12 November 2002


actually u know those 2.0L golfs.... if u r not lookin for anythin special just some solid german cars they are pretty good. surprisingly good torque.
I know mate, im rollin one at the moment. Just hope VW sort out their sport image with the 5th generation Golf. Ive heard the guy who designed the Focus suspension set-up is now at VW so maybe better handling panzerwagens are on the horizon. Lets hope also that now hothatches are no longer seen as the devils work to insurers that VW create a Real Hot Hatch to rival its competiters without reverting to shoe-horning the biggest lump under the bonnet, then detuning it for refinement, then marking it up for around £22k.
 


hehe yeh I think is DR Pierch fault the bugger likes quality n refinement too much if he just throw away a little of the 2 then the avg price will decrease by at least 1000-2500pounds. U know out of all the pick I would actually ahve the V5 tiptronic or manual.

the VW n Audi group have move their "hot hatches" in to POSH hatches u can see that ni the R32 even they call it "hot" yeh its gotta the power n the rest of it but look at the interior its v.v.v.v.posh its... well i would say on par with S3 at least. So i dont think we will EVER get any genuine HOt hatches from VW anymore they r startin to move their price band upwards a little n lettin Skoda n Seat do the dirty work. Sad isnt it no more geniune german hot hatches. oh well looks like Peugeot n Renault are the remainins now.
 


u know paranoia u are very lucky that u got a 2.0. I dislike me 1.6 with all my will ahahha its just crap n the difference between 1.6 n 2.0 is huge even the two doesnt have alot in difference.


Jeff if u r plannin to go to track a Golf is a big frustration i tell u been there done that. it carries less speed oh yeh actually I have an article on the 150 perhaps i will post it tomolo after my exam.

But if u can afford try the Alfa Romeo 156 GTA u will not be dissapointed. one of the greatest Front wheel drive cars ever I luv it. Instead of gettin a passat hhehe i think i might tell my parents to get hte GTA now
 


cyue005, its true what you say in the VAG are letting Seat (not sure about Skoda) produce the hot hatches, but I think they are aiming the Golf at the generation who 20 years ago bought the original GTi and are not quite ready for the next jump up into the Passat. It would be nice though if VAG allowed Audi to sort the luxury side of the group out allowing VW to continue to build more affordable Golfs. I think they are allowing the GTi marque to be continued through theyre smaller hatches, the Polo and the disbanded Lupo.

Also there always seems to be this comparison between hot Clios and warm Golfs on this forum but IMHO I think the Clios direct challenger from VW is the Polo GTi, in size anyway. The Golf should be compared against the Megane if anything.
 


yup true that polo is the set comparison but u know the price range on polo is lower than the clio sport in nz anyway so they take the golfs coz they have higher power n so on. The golf will whip the Megane though not too sure aobut the new one but the golf aint half bad at all its just lack the soul
 


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