182 vs RX8 (Not a dick head thread)

[Bear Head]

Right.

I aren't a 'street racer' and neither is my dad to start.

I have a 182, mild generic mods, exhuast induction lowered etc.

My dad has a mazda 231 rx8, lowered and exhaust.

Few quesitons. Which, in a straight line, down a drag strip is quicker? I can't find any evidence. There are videos on YouTube of the 182 pissing all over the rx8 but I aren't fickle and know the rx8 is a quick car as I have obviously been in both.

The clio 182 has a better power to weight, although only by a couple of bhp. Thing is, the rx8 is quoted at 231 bhp but on the rollers they are lucky to make 180 - 190.

The clio makes realistically 160 - 170. And it weighs 300+ kilos less, so I'm sure the clio must surely be quicker?

Now, what wins round a track? Has anyone got a video or something on YouTube where they've seen any kind of duel or overtake between them both?

This is just an itch and something I'd quite like to know! No, we aren't pillacs and as you can see, haven't settled this down the motorway or 'private road'.

In before don't even try, or you'll "blow the welds on the intake".

 

[obcuz]

You'd never settle that with discussion, if it is such an itch, get down to Santa Pod and put them against a stop watch and nobody can argue.
IMHO does it really matter in the real world?

 

[Bear Head]

You'd never settle that with discussion, if it is such an itch, get down to Santa Pod and put them against a stop watch and nobody can argue.
IMHO does it really matter in the real world?

Of course it doesn't matter, it's just a question but it's an interesting one.

I would but I genuinely respect my car too muxh to rag it down the strip

 

[BoatNonce]

I would but I genuinely respect my car too muxh to rag it down the strip :smile:

Do it for science.

 

[Bear Head]

Do it for science.

Lol. I just want to see a video. There's a guy who's posted a recent thread asking about a quiet ish exhaust and he's posted a video of a 172 following a 197 with said quiet exhaust. A good maybe 7 minutes in they I've take about 4 RX8'S. Not saying they did this because they're faster but there must be about video somewhere!

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

You respect it too much to drive at full throttle for ~15-20 seconds in a straight line ?!

Right.

 

[Bear Head]

You respect it too much to drive at full throttle for ~15-20 seconds in a straight line ?!

Right.

To bang the clutch out and rape it through all the gears?

 

[BoatNonce]

http://vimulator.com/#/v6/drag/CJ6PGB+CX9UYJ

 

[George182]

There isn't much in it ime.

The mazda is a bit quicker, but a 182 will keep up.

 

[Cub.]

Of course it doesn't matter, it's just a question but it's an interesting one.

I would but I genuinely respect my car too muxh to rag it down the strip :smile:

So I and the thousands of others who have ran their car on a drag strip don't respect their cars?

Get them on the strip, have some fun and treat them with some mechanical sympathy. It will be a good day, trust me. You have the added bonus of seeing some cool cars running normally. I prefer Shakey to Pod though.

 

[Bear Head]

So I and the thousands of others who have ran their car on a drag strip don't respect their cars?

Get them on the strip, have some fun and treat them with some mechanical sympathy. It will be a good day, trust me. You have the added bonus of seeing some cool cars running normally. I prefer Shakey to Pod though.

Not saying that at all? What I am saying is my car doesn't have uprated this that and everything like I know your purpose built supercharged clio does?

thing is, I'm genuinely more interested in what they're like on the track! Lol not just a drag strip.


No offence meant btw to anyone who drags their cars. I'm just a little nervous and don't want to 'hurt' it. Lack of knowledge most likely

 

[Bear Head]

There isn't much in it ime.

The mazda is a bit quicker, but a 182 will keep up.

What will your turbo keep up with both rolling and off the line? Genuinely interested in turboing mine in the near future!

 

[George182]

What will your turbo keep up with both rolling and off the line? Genuinely interested in turboing mine in the near future!

I don't actually know - quite a lot I would imagine.

It's a really quick car now.

Circa 300bhp per ton.

 

[Bear Head]

I don't actually know - quite a lot I would imagine.

It's a really quick car now.

Circa 300bhp per ton.

f**k me that is ridiculous. That would surely eat pretty much anything XD

 

[182Trophy]

If you are worried about hurting your engine, how do you drive it when you don't want to take it easy? They only get going at over 5k rpm? I can understand not wanting to dump the clutch at 5k rpm to start but you can thrash these all day.

 

[Bear Head]

If you are worried about hurting your engine, how do you drive it when you don't want to take it easy? They only get going at over 5k rpm? I can understand not wanting to dump the clutch at 5k rpm to start but you can thrash these all day.

Lol I do take mine quite easy really. I just don't want it to blow up or anything really. It is mechanically sound though, just had the belts and the like done. Just thought there must be a video on the track of them. There's a good 3 or 4 on the strip with inconclusive results!

 

[Cub.]

Not saying that at all? What I am saying is my car doesn't have uprated this that and everything like I know your purpose built supercharged clio does?

thing is, I'm genuinely more interested in what they're like on the track! Lol not just a drag strip.


No offence meant btw to anyone who drags their cars. I'm just a little nervous and don't want to 'hurt' it. Lack of knowledge most likely :wink:

No worries. I wasn't offended, sorry if my reply came across short!

Track is much more fun than drag! @Russ_16v has had both the rx8 and countless clio's, and taken both on track so he'd probably know what is quickest a to b.

 

[GiT]

Personally - RX8. RWD traction.

 

[Bear Head]

Personally - RX8. RWD traction.

Hahahahaha he looks like the guy off the undatables!

 

[Bear Head]

No worries. I wasn't offended, sorry if my reply came across short!

Track is much more fun than drag! @Russ_16v has had both the rx8 and countless clio's, and taken both on track so he'd probably know what is quickest a to b.

Okay, me too, don't want to piss anyone off lol! Ah play well if he had a better idea then that's good lol. I just can't tell after being in both. What I will say is the clio feels a hell of a lot lighter and more chuckable! I'd also say it is a little better through the bends, having said that the rx8 just doesn't feel as raw and I think that's much of it.

 

[Knuckles]

close a road (...pizza boy) and live your life a quarter mile at a time (up to 70)?

Make sure when you post your findings though that you replace 'mph' with 'jellybeans', 'knots', 'leptons', 'parsecs' etc

 

[Bear Head]

close a road (...pizza boy) and live your life a quarter mile at a time (up to 70)?

Make sure when you post your findings though that you replace 'mph' with 'jellybeans', 'knots', 'leptons', 'parsecs' etc

Hahaha I think i get what you mean here ... come to think of it I do have a private road nearby (owners permission of course) I may be able get it down there in the next few weeks. Cars had a big wash though so f**k taking it anywhere until the weather's better lol.
L

 

[trenace188]

Your worried about putting your foot down for 30-60secs lol what do you expect to blow btw?

 

[Russ_16v]

Cub is right, I've had 2 rx8's, and done a fair few miles in them (a good friend had one also for about 4 years which I did a lot of miles in) and I've had 29 clio's to date so I guess I'm fairly well informed.

So which is quicker?

I'd say a good rx8 will beat a poorly/timing out 172/182 and a poorly rx will loose to a well timed healthy 172/182.

Performance wise to be honest both will be close - the rx8 actually has slightly better on paper performance figures than the clio, but they are roughly about the same, it really would be down to the variables, Health, tyres (matters huge on the rx8) Driver etc.

The rx8 needs revs, and the gear ratios are a little too off for my liking - seems to drop revs too low gear to gear but I'm probably being picky.

Braking the rx8 is immense - they have the largest front discs fitted on any mazda production car (340 odd mm) and even with motor factor pads in, I never had brake fade at llandow.

Handling id say about the same - clio turns in better (thanks to the low weight id guess) but the mazda holds its own - I was on budget tyres again at llandow and obviously the track prepped clios were getting past but everyone was commenting how well the mazda was holding its own.

I was going round about the same times as standard-ish clio's so it shows they can shuffle.


So I'd say the outright winner would be down to the healthier car/better prepped car/better driver than the actual cars them self's in my opinion with my experience of both cars.

One thing I will say is if both had full tanks the clio would eventually win as around the track in the mazda I was averaging 5.8 mpg where as about 16 mpg in the clio so the mazda would quickly run out of fuel lol

 

[Bear Head]

Cub is right, I've had 2 rx8's, and done a fair few miles in them (a good friend had one also for about 4 years which I did a lot of miles in) and I've had 29 clio's to date so I guess I'm fairly well informed.

So which is quicker?

I'd say a good rx8 will beat a poorly/timing out 172/182 and a poorly rx will loose to a well timed healthy 172/182.

Performance wise to be honest both will be close - the rx8 actually has slightly better on paper performance figures than the clio, but they are roughly about the same, it really would be down to the variables, Health, tyres (matters huge on the rx8) Driver etc.

The rx8 needs revs, and the gear ratios are a little too off for my liking - seems to drop revs too low gear to gear but I'm probably being picky.

Braking the rx8 is immense - they have the largest front discs fitted on any mazda production car (340 odd mm) and even with motor factor pads in, I never had brake fade at llandow.

Handling id say about the same - clio turns in better (thanks to the low weight id guess) but the mazda holds its own - I was on budget tyres again at llandow and obviously the track prepped clios were getting past but everyone was commenting how well the mazda was holding its own.

I was going round about the same times as standard-ish clio's so it shows they can shuffle.


So I'd say the outright winner would be down to the healthier car/better prepped car/better driver than the actual cars them self's in my opinion with my experience of both cars.

One thing I will say is if both had full tanks the clio would eventually win as around the track in the mazda I was averaging 5.8 mpg where as about 16 mpg in the clio so the mazda would quickly run out of fuel lol

What an awesome post, thank you very much. They sound like evens. The rx8 is a more comfortable and bigger, more 'purpose built ' car which i suppose is why it's so fun a little clio keeps up!

 

[Bear Head]

Your worried about putting your foot down for 30-60secs lol what do you expect to blow btw?

Of course I'm not? 30-60 seconds would be a slow quarter mile

 

[Mr Burns]

It doesn't matter what 'evidence' you find on YouTube, when it comes to track/drag racing it comes down to driver abilities.

 

[Bear Head]

It doesn't matter what 'evidence' you find on YouTube, when it comes to track/drag racing it comes down to driver abilities.

Obviously, but an in gear pull is impossible to f**k up isn't it so findings are findings?

 

[Mr Burns]

Obviously, but an in gear pull is impossible to f**k up isn't it so findings are findings?

Not necessarily, especially on track. And then there's the Americans, they can f**k up anything.

 

[Bear Head]

Not necessarily, especially on track. And then there's the Americans, they can f**k up anything.

I definitely agree on track. Too many variables. That's why clios overtake silly cars round tracks sometimes I think yeah much agreed on that one actually lol!

 

[warwickstingray]

When I timed my Cup with a sympathetic start and gear changes that won't kill anything I got a 6.7 0-60 and 15.3 quarter at 90 something mph using one of those Vbox things. If that's any help. To get Renaults brochure claim of 400m in 14.8 you'd have to be quite brutal with the controls on a standard car. The magazine's claimed the 182 and the cup were very similar with the 182 getting a better 0-60 and the cup a better 0-100 and vice versa depending on which rag you read.

Autocar always seem to get the best results but my suspicions are that it's a foot off the clutch sideways and flat shift job to get their figures. Evos figures seem more realistic with them testing two up and will a full tank of full relating fairly well to being one up half a tank and not raping your car.

As said it's a whole can of worms as confidence inspired by an easy to use chassis can be as important as outright performance on track. Ease of getting off the line makes a huge difference.

The other thing to remember is power across the rev range the cars using at the time.

A great example of this is the Tesla P85D. Torque and power everywhere and easy to launch with no gears so it has absolutely ridiculous everyday performance off the line in the so called insane mode.

The Clios are easy cars to balls up off the line.

 

[Bear Head]

When I timed my Cup with a sympathetic start and gear changes that won't kill anything I got a 6.7 0-60 and 15.3 quarter at 90 something mph using one of those Vbox things. If that's any help. To get Renaults brochure claim of 400m in 14.8 you'd have to be quite brutal with the controls on a standard car. The magazine's claimed the 182 and the cup were very similar with the 182 getting a better 0-60 and the cup a better 0-100 and vice versa depending on which rag you read.

Autocar always seem to get the best results but my suspicions are that it's a foot off the clutch sideways and flat shift job to get their figures. Evos figures seem more realistic with them testing two up and will a full tank of full relating fairly well to being one up half a tank and not raping your car.

As said it's a whole can of worms as confidence inspired by an easy to use chassis can be as important as outright performance on track. Ease of getting off the line makes a huge difference.

The other thing to remember is power across the rev range the cars using at the time.

A great example of this is the Tesla P85D. Torque and power everywhere and easy to launch with no gears so it has absolutely ridiculous everyday performance off the line in the so called insane mode.

The Clios are easy cars to balls up off the line.

Wow that's really informative, thanks.

I guess they are quicker than book times though as you've just proved. Makes me smile because they are definitely sub 7 second cars, I think that's why they surprise people.

I might get a realistic rx8 time and see how they all compare then.

Cheers for that.

 

[warwickstingray]

Remember most of the book figures published are 0-62mph or 100km/h. As we all use mph in this country I couldn't tell you if they are faster than the book times of 0-100km/h. They are definitely sub 7 second to 60 cars but after 80mph the lack of a turbo starts to show. The 60-100 time of the Clio shows this as there are cars out there that struggle to get off the line but once rolling they fly.

You've got to be careful of magazine figures as autocar claimed 5.8 30-70mph thru the gears but that included 1st as they took the interval from a sprint where as I think the Cup was around the mid 6's because it was an actual 30-70 thru the gears. The 182 was a few tenths quicker if you do it properly.

In a mass produced car it's all pretty irrelevant as tolerances are pretty big even these days.

Tyres make a difference as well. If your fitting things like road legal track rubber your gonna beat the book times run on road tyres.

Times in controlled conditions are as good as useless to compare everyday performance. They are just there to help make a decision.

The Clios design is getting on now. It's quite common to struggle to follow a more modern car out of a tight bend on a difficult surface when out enjoying some back roads.

 

[warwickstingray]

Megane Sport vs Clio Sport vs BMW 745:

As soon as your into 4th the Clios 2.0 N/A roots start to show.

Anyway that's enough rubbish from me.

 

[Bear Head]

Megane Sport vs Clio Sport vs BMW 745:

As soon as your into 4th the Clios 2.0 N/A roots start to show.

Anyway that's enough rubbish from me.

Quite a surprise that! The clio is ever so quick, the response is amazing and I'd say up to normal road speeds and coming out of corners is where the clio excels isn't it

 

[warwickstingray]

If you can get the front end to grip in 2nd then yes. Following an RS5 at a track day was an eye opener. Not a huge amount of power by RS Audi standards and very heavy but the way they could just nail it and go while I was left scrabbling in my boggo cup. When there was traffic and he had to wait until we'd exited the corner before nailing it the gap he gained from me was noticeably less. Also if I couldn't use 2nd I had no answer while I waited for the car to climb back on it's curve in 3rd.

You have to pick your battles wisely these days if that's your thing as cars have moved on quite considerably. Front end traction, torsional rigidity, dampers, engine response, electronics, torque steer suppression etc have definitely made leaps and bounds.

A modded Clio is a whole different ball game. A more aggressive setup, track day tyres and an LSD and your flying.

 

[Bear Head]

If you can get the front end to grip in 2nd then yes. Following an RS5 at a track day was an eye opener. Not a huge amount of power by RS Audi standards and very heavy but the way they could just nail it and go while I was left scrabbling in my boggo cup. When there was traffic and he had to wait until we'd exited the corner before nailing it the gap he gained from me was noticeably less. Also if I couldn't use 2nd I had no answer while I waited for the car to climb back on it's curve in 3rd.

You have to pick your battles wisely these days if that's your thing as cars have moved on quite considerably. Front end traction, torsional rigidity, dampers, engine response, electronics, torque steer suppression etc have definitely made leaps and bounds.

A modded Clio is a whole different ball game. A more aggressive setup, track day tyres and an LSD and your flying.

A very interesting observation there. You're right though, getting grip in 2nd can be a bit of a challenge, even with good tyres!

I like your posts lol. They're interesting!

I can imagine with a turbo, LSD and uprated coil overs the car would be a monster slayer

 

[warwickstingray]

No worries. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[warwickstingray]

Forgot to add that at the end of the day what any car really needs is a proper wedge of talent behind the wheel. Just look at the top gear reasonably priced car from worst to F1 drivers as an example of how much difference talent makes.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_test_track

 

[Bear Head]

Forgot to add that at the end of the day what any car really needs is a proper wedge of talent behind the wheel. Just look at the top gear reasonably priced car from worst to F1 drivers as an example of how much difference talent makes.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_test_track

That's ever so true aswell it really is. This is why I think any powerful car really should be judged on appeal rather than figures to a certain degree.

He likes how the rx8 looks but I just love the unassuming nature of the clio it'd really awesome!