197 upper inlet with 172 RS lower?

[Goti172]

Is it possible? im researching for the best possible intake using OEM renault parts and i cant see how people put 197 inlets into 1x2 heads as the injectors are the other way around.


I used the search and found nothing.

thanks in advance

 

[497adam]

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[Goti172]

but it says there he used a full 197 head "modified" to fit over a 172 block, i will keep reading maybe he makes it clearer to undertand how he did it

 

[NorthloopCup]

It can be done, but it'll be horrendous in every way shape or form. The ports don't match up in a month of Sundays. Trust me, I looked at doing it a long time ago.
If you want a 197 inlet, fit the head and pistons from a 197.

 

[l33th3tr33]

Probably cheaper and easier to get an RS2. And it'll sound better.

 

[Goti172]

Probably cheaper and easier to get an RS2. And it'll sound better.

And it wont look OEM (i need it to look oem for the spanish MOT b******s)

It can be done, but it'll be horrendous in every way shape or form. The ports don't match up in a month of Sundays. Trust me, I looked at doing it a long time ago.
If you want a 197 inlet, fit the head and pistons from a 197.

I read i'll need the pistons to keep the CR as it is, and i read a hole has to be drilled and tapped for a pulley to fit, are these all the issues or are there more, i think the stock 172 computer wont be able to cope with the changes, and i dont know if it can be timed properly with stock Renault timing tools, if you know this and want to share that information or if its discussed somewhere else please point me in that direction please

 

[R3k1355]

Can you not dump the entire stock 197 engine into the 172?

 

[Chrisgti6]

Can you not dump the entire stock 197 engine into the 172?

Isn't the issue getting the 'box in? as the 197 box is too big and the 1*2 box doesn't mate to the block? Needs custom driveshafts, mounts etc. Not a simple drop in job. They you have the electrics side of things, the VVT is different in the 197's IIRC

 

[Goti172]

Can you not dump the entire stock 197 engine into the 172?

Yes you can but its a massive of a job

Isn't the issue getting the 'box in? as the 197 box is too big and the 1*2 box doesn't mate to the block? Needs custom driveshafts, mounts etc. Not a simple drop in job. They you have the electrics side of things, the VVT is different in the 197's IIRC

So building a 172 block with a 197 head means standalone ECU?

 

[Chrisgti6]

Yes you can but its a massive of a job



So building a 172 block with a 197 head means standalone ECU?

Not as far as I know, you should be able to run the 197 head without standalone management. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along soon.

@bloke

 

[bloke]

The 197 Engine and box fit in easily. Need to sort shafts and sort the shifter out.

To run it on standard Clio management you need to change the dephaser and solenoid and can only then run it on/off not fully variable. If you do that then you might as well just run 197 cams in the stock motor.

 

[Goti172]

The 197 Engine and box fit in easily. Need to sort shafts and sort the shifter out.

To run it on standard Clio management you need to change the dephaser and solenoid and can only then run it on/off not fully variable. If you do that then you might as well just run 197 cams in the stock motor.

View attachment 1335078

So you say i can put 197 cams (both of them) into a 172 head and leave it as it is and i'll get the vvt as an "on/off" system? Is there any benefit from that?

 

[bloke]

With a decent map should give you nudging 190bhp if not a bit more with few other mods.

 

[Goti172]

With a decent map should give you nudging 190bhp if not a bit more with few other mods.

And how will it be in terms of power curves, i mean, will it be like an Honda? I have an almost stock phase1 engine im willing to work on but i have to keep it "stock" in the outside because modded cars in spain are "almost criminals"

 

[bloke]

nothing like a honda as it will have torque!!

black was car with decat, filter and rs tuner map. red 197 cams, milltek exhaust, epas, air con delete and matched inlets.

 

[Goti172]

nothing like a honda as it will have torque!!

black was car with decat, filter and rs tuner map. red 197 cams, milltek exhaust, epas, air con delete and matched inlets.

View attachment 1335209

Red print is with a custom map? What electronic did you use? Stock sensor and dephaser pulley from a 172?

 

[bloke]

standard ecu and dephaser etc.

 

[Goti172]

standard ecu and dephaser etc.

So 197 cams are a good upgrade performance wise, did you have any issues regarding idle stability?

 

[bloke]

no, idle was fine before and after map.

 

[Goti172]

so, time to start looking for a set of them cams

 

[bloke]

the cams and mapped ecu from the car on the graph are available.

 

[shiftspark]

the cams and mapped ecu from the car on the graph are available.

Could you fire me a fitted price over Carl ?
Cheers

 

[Goti172]

Also, timing the 197 cams in a 172 has any tricks?

 

[GrzesiekK.]

Some times I prepared RS172 cylinder heads to work with RS197 manifold. There is a lot of work if it will be made correctly. On the photo you can see the RS172 head prepared for the rs197 collector after full porting and flowbench.

 

[Goti172]

Some times I prepared RS172 cylinder heads to work with RS197 manifold. There is a lot of work if it will be made correctly. On the photo you can see the RS172 head prepared for the rs197 collector after full porting and flowbench.
View attachment 1336784

You did that using cnc? You mainly enlarge the ports to get matching shapes, and what fuel rail do you use?

 

[GrzesiekK.]

No, I don't use CNC. This is all a handmade. I prepare cylinder heads for lot of guys in Poland in HillClimb championship and for track day cars. Below the photo the intake port from this cylinder head during work

 

[Goti172]

No, I don't use CNC. This is all a handmade. I prepare cylinder heads for lot of guys in Poland in HillClimb championship and for track day cars. Below the photo the intake port from this cylinder head during work

And when using the 197 inlet what injector setup do you install?

 

[GrzesiekK.]

Everything depends on the engine setup: cams, pistons etc.

 

[Goti172]

Everything depends on the engine setup: cams, pistons etc.

I mean, injector ramp fits below intake in 197 and above intake in 182, how do you make it fit?

 

[GrzesiekK.]

The weakest setup on such a head that I have assembled was build at catcams 5502422, injectors was from Clio 3RS 197 and remap on original siemens sirius32 ecu from clio 2 rs172. He got 225KM and 238Nm

 

[Goti172]

The weakest setup on such a head that I have assembled was build at catcams 5502422, injectors was from Clio 3RS 197 and remap on original siemens sirius32 ecu from clio 2 rs172. He got 225KM and 238Nm

You built any engine on 197 cams?

 

[GrzesiekK.]

No, everything was on "stronger" cams.

 

[Vicente Spain]

Dear Guys

I need your help and maybe you can help me.

I ask appologies for my English, maybe it's not good enough as I would like it, I'm sorry.

I bought a clio 182 and also a 197 engine.

I take the block 182 and I placed all the internal parts of 197 (crank, pistons and I also placed forged rods)

I put the 182 pulley crank and clutch.

I made the pulley hole in the head to put correctly the cambelt.

I put the 197 head and intake manifold.

I change the dephaser solenoid connector (different connector 197 and 182)

Well, the doubt is it.

I'm going to use the ecu OEM 182 with a remap, but I do not know if the dephaser pulley (model 197) placed on it can work well or do I need to place the dephaser pulley 182?

Can you help me.

P.D., the reason for using the 197 dephaser pulley is because it allows more advancement in the input cam than the 182 dephaser pulley.

If I need to put the 182 dephaser pulley, somebody can you explain why or why the 197 dephaser pulley can not used on it?

Thanks in advance Guys.

Vicente

 

[bloke]

197 dephaser is fully variable, 172 is on/off.

 

[Vicente Spain]

Ok, thanks very much.

But, when you say variable (187)or on/off (182), you talk about solenoid dephaser, programmation OEM Ecu or pulley dephaser mechanism??

Thanks again

Vicente

 

[NorthloopCup]

You need to run a mappable ecu to run the fully variable cam timing that you get with the 197. It’ll just be on or off.

Running a 197 dephaser requires the dephaser switching in a different way too.

 

[Vicente Spain]

You need to run a mappable ecu to run the fully variable cam timing that you get with the 197. It’ll just be on or off.

Running a 197 dephaser requires the dephaser switching in a different way too.[/

 

[Vicente Spain]

Thanks for reply.
So, if I use 197 pulley with 182 OEM Ecu, the pulley going to work as 182 pulley?
Or the interior system of the both pulleys is different.
Thanks very much
Vicente

 

[NorthloopCup]

Thanks for reply.
So, if I use 197 pulley with 182 OEM Ecu, the pulley going to work as 182 pulley?
Or the interior system of the both pulleys is different.
Thanks very much
Vicente

The oil drillings for the vvt feed are in a different place on a 197, and from memory, the solenoid operates in a different way to suit. This means that you may need to alter the way the solenoid works to get the vvt working on/off.

I’m going off memory from looking at stuff years ago now, so unfortunately it’s all a bit cloudy.

@Radugns has done the conversion and has it up and running I think??

 

[Radugns]

The oil drillings for the vvt feed are in a different place on a 197, and from memory, the solenoid operates in a different way to suit. This means that you may need to alter the way the solenoid works to get the vvt working on/off.

I’m going off memory from looking at stuff years ago now, so unfortunately it’s all a bit cloudy.

@Radugns has done the conversion and has it up and running I think??

You can't use the 197 dephaser as with standard ecu you cannot use pwm signal for vvt solenoid. Recent information I got from facebook is that Chris at Efi could change the action in the stock ecu to accept the 197 head oil feeds.
So you have to remap the ecu ar first before running it (would be ideal).
Running the 197 dephaser can be done with standalone ecu.
I port a 182 to accept the 197 inlet, but I did not recommand this to anyone.
So, use the 197 crank as it is the best, 197 rods with pistons and the 197 head. You will have a little higher CR so use some colder sparkplugs, 172 vvt with 172 solenoid and remap stock ecu.
Without a good timing, you will not achive more than 200hp. You need to use some custom locking cam tool for maximum performance.