Another roll cage thread

[Z4MCSL]

Seen a lot of threads on this but mostly older.

Basically I am keen to think about roll cages at some point just from a saftey perspective but I am very new to trackdays and on a limited budget.

The general theme from most of what I read is that unless you get a full weld in cage you are not really adding any protection...is this really the case?

I am keen on a cheaper minimal cage due to my budget but if that is pointless then ill just wait until I can justify a proper cage.

Any thoughts much appreciated

 

[JB21]

If a road car as well i'd go with a 4 point cage, as a 6 point with overhead bars could cause you more damage in a big shunt on the road due to you not wearing helmet. You can get a custom 4 point bolt in with diagonals and harness bar for £500.

 

[Z4MCSL]

Ywah I've heard that, don't want to risk head injury on a normal drive...its not a daily but I do use it alot on the road.

Guess the question is will a 4 point bolt in be worth while if the car actually rolls

 

[JB21]

Ywah I've heard that, don't want to risk head injury on a normal drive...its not a daily but I do use it alot on the road.

Guess the question is will a 4 point bolt in be worth while if the car actually rolls

100% yes, especially in a tin can of a Clio.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

There's nothing wrong with a good bolt-in cage. Plenty of pukka competition cars (even factory ones) have used them over the years. A weld-in can offer more protection, but much of it's job is also to generally stiffen the shell for performance, as well as to protect the occupants. The main thing with a bolt-in (or any cage really) is just to make sure it's fitted properly. Use the correct reinforcement where it's mounted. If you just bolt it through the standard metal, it's liable to just rip itself out in the event of a big impact. A half cage will still help to some degree, but obviously won't do much to prevent the front portion of the roof coming down. Again though, just make sure it's fitted properly, with reinforcement where it is fixed to the shell. This should be 3mm steel plate and should be welded to the shell.

I think one thing I would remember though, is that you are actually pretty unlikely to roll your car at a track day. I mean yes, it could happen, but it's a pretty rare thing, so I don't think I would be too worried about it. A Safety Devices bolt-in cage is what most people go for and is really the most you would ever need. You can always buy the rear half first, and add the front later if you wish.

 

[Hollidog]

Lots of manufacturer-ran single spec series use bolt in roll cages - Lamborghini Super Trofeo, Ferrari 488 Challenge etc. As long as the cage is installed by a reputable professional using the appropriate foot plating then you will be fine.

Something that I don't see many (hardly any actually) track dayers considering is a HANS device. If you are going to 4 or 6 point seat belts then the only thing that can really move in those things is your head, and with the added weight of a helmet that is a lot of inertia being thrown around a car in an impact. I always wear HANS on trackdays even though the closest I have come to an incident is straightlining the chicane on the back straight at Bedford.

I think one thing I would remember though, is that you are actually pretty unlikely to roll your car at a track day. I mean yes, it could happen, but it's a pretty rare thing, so I don't think I would be too worried about it.

I've seen a Ginetta on its lid in the sand at Paddock Hill, marshalls turned it over and it was driven back to the pits!

 

[Twingo 1??]

Seen plenty of cages that haven't been fitted correctly and dangerous. As Jon and jb say a 4 point will be more than sufficient just make sure that it is fitted correctly with spreader plates welded in.

 

[Z4MCSL]

This is really helpful thanks.

Looking at Safety Devices website and cant see any prices - followed the links to Mark Fish motorsport which is a dealer they use but again no prices?

Am I looking in the wrong place?

 

[NorthloopCup]

@Tom Johnson - aka fulcrum motorsport can do you a cage.

 

[Hollidog]

This is really helpful thanks.

Looking at Safety Devices website and cant see any prices - followed the links to Mark Fish motorsport which is a dealer they use but again no prices?

Am I looking in the wrong place?

I used Mark for mine, from memory the rear half was about £900 including labour and vat - I can dig out the invoice when I get home if you don't want to call him. Mark is a lovely bloke and will be happy to answer your questions - however he is not cheap but imo you do not cheap out on safety.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I've seen a Ginetta on its lid in the sand at Paddock Hill, marshalls turned it over and it was driven back to the pits!

It's quite impressive how much a car can stand up to really. They are tough old things!

This is really helpful thanks.

Looking at Safety Devices website and cant see any prices - followed the links to Mark Fish motorsport which is a dealer they use but again no prices?

Am I looking in the wrong place?

I think Mark is the sole distributor for Safety Devices' Renault range. He does occasionally run group buys on here. He's a good bloke. As @Hollidog says, not cheap, but good to deal with in my experience.

 

[Tom Johnson]

I used Mark for mine, from memory the rear half was about £900 including labour and vat - I can dig out the invoice when I get home if you don't want to call him. Mark is a lovely bloke and will be happy to answer your questions - however he is not cheap but imo you do not cheap out on safety.

£900 fitted 😲 ouch.
I have put my prices up recently but might have to have another look at them 🤣
One of mine is £725 fitted and fitting can be done in about 4/5 hours based on a stripped out car with ideally just one seat to remove.
Take a look at my Facebook page -

Fulcrum Motorsport

Fulcrum Motorsport, Beverley, East Riding of Yorkshire. 739 likes · 35 talking about this · 7 were here. Specialising in building custom Roll cages both bolt in and welded, full and half. All built...

www.facebook.com

 

[Steven103]

172/182 Cup Racers had bolt in cages. Part of this is probably down to the need to re-shell them every other race. Pretty sure the 197 and later were weld in.

Considering you’re not rolling a WRC car down a mountain, and aren’t doing this for shell stiffness, I think I’d be far more inclined to ensure that the feet are done properly than fuss over bolted/welded. Afterall the bottom of your ~5mm wall thickness cage is attached to a bit of ~1mm thick steel that’s been heated to the point of melting.

And I think you’re probably more likely to be T-boned on the road on the way to a track day (in a seat that doesn’t have ears?) than you are to roll your car with enough severity to worry about bolted vs welded.

 

[Kev@KAM]

I'm going to pick up on a few words.
You are new to trackdays so I'm going to say dont bother with a cage for the moment.
If you primarily use your car on the road a cage, bucket seats and harnesses just becomes annoying. I did this once and wouldnt go back.
Get some laps under your belt. Then work out how you are going to use the car and whether you will really get the benefit you want from cage.
If you do want to get a cage.

If you really are just dipping in and testing the water concentrate on keeping costs down and just going out and having fun.
Just a set of coilovers will have you having fun

 

[Z4MCSL]

Thanks for the advice
Definitely not a road car and doesnt need to be pleasant on the road but I will keep it MOTd qnd road legal as i find it handy having two cars plus it's got a decent boot.

The only reason I am looking at cages is safety. As I am getting into tracking the car and seeing so many other people with cages it made me wonder whether it should be creeping higher up the priorities list ahead of other mods as I get further down the line.

However perhaps it's just my inexperience that makes me feel like rolling is even a possibility and more days will teach me that it's highly unlikely??

 

[chris blue]

Personally, i think any protection is helpful, and went for a base plate welded in, 4 point half cage
Full cages are a real PITA if used on the road

A lot wont agree, but IMO thats better than nothing

And, i have standard seatbelts, AND full harnsess belts installed as well. No issue at MOT.

 

[Tonyclio]

I have just bought a 4 point cage from Single Source Motorsport and fitted it yesterday

Renault Clio 172 / 182 Rear Half Roll Cage, Motorsport, Race, Rally, Cup | eBay

Condition is New. As pictured half roll cage, made to motorsport specification with CDS Tube.

www.ebay.co.uk

Although there is no mention on Ebay he has a facebook page which shows this is not just someone knocking out a few cages from a lock-up, but it's not Safety Devices!!

The price is very very reasonable, so I did my research and checked out the spec. The cages are made from CDS E355 and I went for all the bars being 44.5 diameter tubing at no extra cost.

The cage itself is reasonable quality, the welds are acceptable, the fit is good, though the powder coating is not the best but at the price I paid i'm happy.

The spreader plated will need bending to fit the curvature of the rear arches before welding them in. I've bolted mine in and getting the plates welded next week.

Delivery was about a month and had to chase, so not quick as quick as suggested on the website and on initial enquiry.

MY clio is used for hill climbing and is not mandatory for the class I compete in but will provide some roll over protection and will stiffen up the car a little.
BTW the rear seats have to stay in as does the trim for class 1B in hill climbing /sprinting,

On balance I think they are good value, but judge for yourself

I am not connected with the seller.

 

[Patrick Daines]

I have just bought a 4 point cage from Single Source Motorsport and fitted it yesterday

Renault Clio 172 / 182 Rear Half Roll Cage, Motorsport, Race, Rally, Cup | eBay

Condition is New. As pictured half roll cage, made to motorsport specification with CDS Tube.

www.ebay.co.uk

Although there is no mention on Ebay he has a facebook page which shows this is not just someone knocking out a few cages from a lock-up, but it's not Safety Devices!!

The price is very very reasonable, so I did my research and checked out the spec. The cages are made from CDS E355 and I went for all the bars being 44.5 diameter tubing at no extra cost.

The cage itself is reasonable quality, the welds are acceptable, the fit is good, though the powder coating is not the best but at the price I paid i'm happy.

The spreader plated will need bending to fit the curvature of the rear arches before welding them in. I've bolted mine in and getting the plates welded next week.

Delivery was about a month and had to chase, so not quick as quick as suggested on the website and on initial enquiry.

MY clio is used for hill climbing and is not mandatory for the class I compete in but will provide some roll over protection and will stiffen up the car a little.
BTW the rear seats have to stay in as does the trim for class 1B in hill climbing /sprinting,

On balance I think they are good value, but judge for yourself

I am not connected with the seller.


View attachment 1487395View attachment 1487394

How much was this BTW? Very interested myself.

Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[Tonyclio]

How much was this BTW? Very interested myself.

Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk

The current price is on the Ebay advert £335 + £50 P&P ( mine was delivered on a pallet)