Bike throttle bodies

[ben_barron]

Look at this on eBay:

clio sport f4r 172 182 throttle bodies custom intake


http://bit.ly/10y7H06

anyone any info on these?

 

[Dan519]

I personally wouldn't go anywhere near them as they're a pain in the arse. Even getting trumpets for them is a massive problem, let alone balancing them right, and making them work well

 

[Ph1 Tom]

I have had great success with bike bodies and bike carbs in the past of a few engines. Obviously bodies are required for the Clios due to the fuel injection.

I would speak to Dan about an inlet, this is his website http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/

As you doing trumpets the Weber DCOE 45 trumpets fit to the Suzuki GSXR bodies nicely and you can get a range of lengths for them. Also usually decent bike injectors will flow enough fuel too so you can keep the bike fuel rail and injectors.

If you need any help or advice give me a shout

 

[Silent_Scone]

Waste of time plenty of fit for purpose kits readily available and used ones going.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I've used bike bodies on similar engines, work well if spaced correctly. They tend to be very good quality bodies and are designed to last long times between balancing etc.
bit of a pain to fit but results can be good if you do it well.

You need management too of course.

 

[ben_barron]

Cheers guys, see what go for nearer the end of auction, rather have fit for purpose ones but if these go for decent price prob give them a go

 

[ben_barron]

How much worth paying for these in trade off for the hassle?

 

[st200_john]

Did you fit bike tb's after?

I'm looking at doing the same now.

Dunno what ones to go for tho, 750,1000 , etc.

also what trumpet length and injectors to use.

Any info would be great

 

[Chip-mk1]

Go for ones off a bigger bike as they are more likely to be large enough.

You want the longest trumpets you can possibly fit under the engine bay if its in a clio still, you will run out of space before you run out of wanting longer.

 

[frenchthing]

If developed correctly (inlet lengths/body size/trumpets) they offer great performance for a fraction of the equivalent dth or jenvey setup...

sandy brown has spent many years working on them with the TU peugeot engine and they are now quite simply the best option out there..

As for trumpets being limited, all you need to do is weld a flange onto them and you can use suitably sized jenvey items

SBD do a very nice fuel rail too...

Heres my setup

if your prepared to do a bit of development there a great alternative

 

[frenchthing]

Double post, epic fail..

 

[Chip-mk1]

Epic amount of intake length there

Sadly that would be out of the bonnet on a clio, lol.

 

[frenchthing]

At least it would breathe cold air out the front!..

Another issue is the throttle quadrant on bike bodies, they only need a very small amount of cable pull to go to WOT so either graft a new quadrant on the bodies or as I did play about with the pedal so its ratiin is less.... 30mm of pedal travel is a bit of a pain!!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah my bike bodies on my XE engine were a bit of a hair trigger, but a larger quadrant soon sorts it.

 

[st200_john]

Thanks for the info, found a few sets, from gsxr 750 and 1000, for £100

bogg bros will make a manifold for £230, then I know a place that will fit and map a piggyback chip for £400

So a lot cheaper than a off the shelf kit

 

[Chip-mk1]

Don't touch a piggyback for bodies on these engines. Full standalone required.

 

[frenchthing]

K1 and K2 gixxer bodies are individual units, from then on there 2 pairs iirc.. the spacing remains identical though (80mm) and I think they all taper from 48 to 42mm.. some have secondary butterflies , whip them out and bung the holes up with chemical metal or is I did with machined bungs..

as said piggybacks are best left to primary school kids and getting drunk mates home...

go standalone!

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Thanks for the info, found a few sets, from gsxr 750 and 1000, for £100

bogg bros will make a manifold for £230, then I know a place that will fit and map a piggyback chip for £400

So a lot cheaper than a off the shelf kit

Save yourself £80 on the manifold. See my link up the thread.

 

[Cro]

I ran bike bodies, honda blackbird 1100 iirc, omex600 ecu and had good results. There'll be plenty of photos and info in my 5dr 182 thread

 

[vjs]

Quit interesting thread... I am in
Should I contact these guys http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/ and ask if they can make one conversion kit for my 172 ph1? Any experience on how much would be for it?

 

[Mar172]

It may end up costing you more when you could pick up a second hand set of jenvey itbs which come up for sale on here now and again.

 

[vjs]

Really? I don't think will spend over 1,5 k pounds to make my own setup.

 

[Mar172]

Really? I don't think will spend over 1,5 k pounds to make my own setup.

That's for a brand new set of itbs I have seen them come on here secondhand set of itbs for around £900

 

[Chip-mk1]

The last two sets of Jenveys I bought on here ended up costing me 900 quid for one set (48s so overkill unless you want 250+ really), and the other was around 700 with an omex loom too (45s).

I think you would end up spending most of that to do bike bodies and they are unlikely to work anywhere near as well.


I'd say 900 quid was about typical for a complete bodies setup secondhand, including everything but loom/ecu (ie with the filter and throttle linkage etc)

 

[r0ss172]

What advantages do you gain by having longer trumpets then just out of interest?

 

[Chip-mk1]

What advantages do you gain by having longer trumpets then just out of interest?

Its about optimising the inlet for a particular rev range.

The trouble with a short inlet tract is it ends up optimum at 10Krpm+ which isnt much use on a F4R generally as most are only going to 8K at most.

 

[r0ss172]

Ok, so its to do with the amount of air each will flow... so im guessing the shorter inlet tract will flow more air? meaning youve got to get it up to 10Krpm to see its optimum usage, where as the longer one will flow less air and be more useful at say 7-8k?

 

[Laura]

have them on my golf

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/taylorthp/39c200a2.mp4">

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ok, so its to do with the amount of air each will flow... so im guessing the shorter inlet tract will flow more air? meaning youve got to get it up to 10Krpm to see its optimum usage, where as the longer one will flow less air and be more useful at say 7-8k?

Well its not really about how much air they will flow, so much as how much they help the engine to breath.

A long track with a short diameter is better for low end torque as you get a good mass of air moving at a high speed towards the inlet valve towards the end of the induction stroke which can help with the last little bit of filling the cylinder, but the same tract at high rpm would restrict the cylinders ability to fill as it wouldnt flow well enough.

There isnt a "bigger is always better" rule, its a case of there is an optimum layout for each point in the rev range so you need to choose a setup that suits well the rev range that matters most to you.

 

[MG cup]

Beaten to it

To add to what chips said, you should decide what length you need upon what cams you are using too IMO.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Beaten to it

To add to what chips said, you should decide what length you need upon what cams you are using too IMO.

Yes, when I say optimum for RPM, I mean for a single given spec of engine, if you change something as dramatic as the cams, the length requirements will change too.

As a general rule of thumb though on jenveys on a clio, the longest you can fit really is 120 and these seem to work better than the shorter ones with all the cams ive seen used on clios, so the optimum is probably 120 or more in most cases, unless you were building a 9krpm screamer.

 

[MG cup]

Yeah some of the sodemo engines you see have quite small trumpets/tract length as their built for up top.

 

[Chip-mk1]

have them on my golf

Those are carbs not bodies though?


Manifold doesnt look idea if after power either TBH, that much angle change abruptly right next to the port isnt really ideal.

Looks nice in the bay though and I bet it sounds great too, which probably matter more to you on that particular application

 

[Laura]

the manifold is w**k, but its not as w**k as it was oriinally.

there is a video link in the 1st bit but i dont know why its not come up. Sounds amazing, shame i want to rip it all out again

 

[Chip-mk1]

Video link:
http://vid11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/taylorthp/39c200a2.mp4

 

[vjs]

Are these I should be interested in?
Manifold is a not big deal, I can make any by myself.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-of-Jenvey-45mm-Throttle-Bodies-with-1981-Porsche-924-Turbo-Inlet-Manifold-/190938616727?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c74d41397

 

[Chip-mk1]

Best results will come from individual bodies as you can get the port spacing perfect without having to have bends in the manifold, and in an ideal world you want tapers not parellels too.

 

[vjs]

I just got an message from Dan from danstengineering.co.uk

"Hi,

Thankyou for your enquiry. Unfortunately that is not a plate profile we currently hold on file, however if an inlet gasket or manifold could be provided it could be drawn and cut no problem. Basic price list as follows:

GSXR1000 Throttle Body kit £549.00
42mm throttle bodies with injectors and TPS (respaced to suit engine application), 50mm trumpet kit in either 50mm or 90mm length, Manifold and Fitting Kit (fluoro lined hoses & clips)

Pipercross PX600 Filter and Baseplate Package for above £100
C603D/C604D (depending on trumpet lengths) filter and baseplate cut to suit the GSXR trumpet kit

Omex 600 ECU £654
Pre loaded with a basemap to get the engine running

Competition Spec Wiring Loom £245
Custom made with GSXR injector connections, & ancilliary connectors to suit your engine

Air Temp Sensor for Omex £18

Any questions please ask.

Regards

Dan"

 

[whom]

This link explains why longer trumpets work better for lower RPM

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/Intake_exhaust.html

Basically when the inlet valve shuts, the air moving towards it suddenly increases in pressure because its path is blocked, this pressure wave reflects back up the trumpet, then reflects again at the trumpet entrance and then reaches the valve when it is open cramming more air into the cylinder. They call it the supercharging effect.

Longer trumpet = longer time between pressure waves = supercharging effect at lower RPM