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Boot creased in accident - automatic write-off?



  BMW E46 330i Touring
The consensus on here seems to be that if aclio is rear-ended and the boot floor is creased, even slightly, that the car's are often written off as it's too difficult to repair. Is this pretty much always the case?

I'm asking as my mates 172 was bumped from behind and there is a small crease in the boot floor, about a tennis ball size but right on one of the raised ridges. The insurance company passed it to their authorised repairer who are pretty reputable, and they have confirmed they'll fix it, but I don't know whether they'll just hammer the dent out.

He's looking to sell it soon so obviously doesn't want to sell it on if it's dangerous...
 
yup 99% write off when the boot floor is damaged in any way because of the twisting and crumpling it can cause to the chassis.

its it is really really miner and u dont wana claim just smack it with a sledge:p
 
I was hit from 30mph when I was stood still in my Mk2, boot floor was crumpled.

They pulled it out no problem, I couldnt tell the difference...
 
  E87 118d M Sport
no. not in my case. depends who your insurance company is and the condition/value of your car. I was initially told by the repair specialist that it would be a write off, but the guy that came out said it definitely wont be, and the boot floors for clios are easy to repair, and always crease if a rear end accident occurs.

the boot floor is £640 + vat from renault.

mine has £2500 of damage and is being repaired.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=435923
 
  BMW E46 330i Touring
^ they can pull it out so it looks the same, but I thought that it structurally weakened the car, so wasn't safe?
 

Pep

ClioSport Club Member
  M2,XJS,S1000RR
My old 1,2 was fooked when I got hit, new boot floor was welded in, easy job apparently?!
 

Steve

ClioSport Club Member
  ST3 8.5
I was hit from 30mph when I was stood still in my Mk2, boot floor was crumpled.

They pulled it out no problem, I couldnt tell the difference...


Stick it on a jig & press the button;)

May actually be better afterwards:quiet:
 
  Mondeo TDCI 130
It depends if the company quotes to repair it (rare), where they would straighten it etc, or replace it, cut it out and fit new! Then it gets expensive!
 

Lee

  BMW M2C
I was hit from 30mph when I was stood still in my Mk2, boot floor was crumpled.

They pulled it out no problem, I couldnt tell the difference...

Exactly. Everyone thinks a creased boot is game over, when it's actually designed to crumple to absorb impact!

When the Trophy got rear ended the boot floor was creased. They repaired it no problem, and even painted it so it looked better than before the accident.

As someone has already posted, you can replace the boot floor. It comes down to cost more often than not.
 
  A4 Avant
I think the problem with 1*2's though now is that if the boot floor has been creased in an accident then once all the cost of bumper, tailgate, lights and possible exhaust have been factored in the additional cost of the boot floor tips it over the edge of whats economical to repair.
 
  Clio 182 arctic
i had my 1.2 rear ended and the boot floor creased. the insurance sed it was gna be pulled out.
I then told them that i didnt think the floor would be as strong as before and that i would sell the car if it was going to be repaired so they gave me a cheque.
 
The consensus on here seems to be that if aclio is rear-ended and the boot floor is creased, even slightly, that the car's are often written off as it's too difficult to repair. Is this pretty much always the case?

Nope, doesn't mean an automatic write off at all mate. It will only be written off if the cost of repairs is above the threshold they set (this will depend on the value of the car), or if they deem the car to be unsafe to be put back on the road, which is unlikely from a small crease in the boot floor.
 
  E87 118d M Sport
It will only be written off if the cost of repairs is above the threshold they set (this will depend on the value of the car), or if they deem the car to be unsafe to be put back on the road, which is unlikely from a small crease in the boot floor.

the threshold with most insurance companies is 65%
 
Cool, so as long as it looks like new then he's fine to accept and carry on as usual?

As long as it's carried out by a reputable place it should be fine, usually ends up looking better than standard inside as it'll be painted whereas from factory Renault don't really bother. We've replaced a few, never on a Clio though.


the threshold with most insurance companies is 65%

Yeah usually something along those lines, one we were dealing with today was 60%.
 
  clio 182 black /gold
This happened to my corsa. They put a new peice and it was fine.
P1010367.jpg
 
  BMW E46 330i Touring
Cheers chaps... one last thing.

Would you say that he should insist on it being replaced and not just the dent removed? I'd imagine if they just pull out the dent/crease there's always going to be the line which it creased at previously, which could easily buckle again?
 
  Clio 182 arctic
Would you say that he should insist on it being replaced and not just the dent removed? I'd imagine if they just pull out the dent/crease there's always going to be the line which it creased at previously, which could easily buckle again?

I insisted that it be replaced but they sed no, i told the insurance company that i would sell the car due to me not feeling confident that the boot floor would hold up so well in another bump. they paid out for the cost of the repairs and that was that
 
  iceberg 172
once on the jig, cut off the rear panel as it will need a new one anyways then they clamp the puller on it and as it pulls out tap it in shape with a panel hammer. spot weld on the the new rear pane, fill it, smooth it and paint it job done. we do loads at work.
 
  BMW M135I
when my 1.4 was rear ended, bloke just stretched it back out but put down that he bought a new one and split cash between us
 
  It's A Reno
Mine was rear ended shortly after I bought it new. :eek:

First of all, it had a geometry check to make sure the bodyshell has not been affected.

They removed the rear panel, pulled out the boot floor and panned it back into shape, put a new rear panel on and sprayed it, so now I have a lovely shiny Monaco blue boot. :approve:

The very bottom lip of the tailgate had been clipped and so that required a very minor straighten and respray, and they fitted a new bumper.

All in, it cost £1600, but you can deduct the price of the bumper from that.

IMO, I would rather have the original boot floor panel repaired than having a new panel fitted as I see that as a very intrusive repair and the removal and replacement could play havoc with the geometry and if you've ever seen a body shell built you'll see why.
I also see it having rust implications too.

As far as it making the shell weaker in a future similar accident, I can't see that as it's got the characteristics of tissue paper anyway.
 
  Clio 182 arctic
My 1.2 was hit from behind, no damage to the bumper apart from 2 small marks where the reg plate screws of the car that hit it were. The boot floor creased but the insurance said they would repair it.
All this internet talk of 95% chance of writing off is rubbish. Its just a crease in metal, albeit in an awkward place.
 
  Renault clio
My 1.2 was hit from behind, no damage to the bumper apart from 2 small marks where the reg plate screws of the car that hit it were. The boot floor creased but the insurance said they would repair it.
All this internet talk of 95% chance of writing off is rubbish. Its just a crease in metal, albeit in an awkward place.
The insurance company seemed to want to write mine off but don't think they valued it high have you got an email I can send you photos ,yes the consensus seems to be bad for boot floor
 

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GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
  335d
Depending on age and mileage that is likely to be dead. Would be easy to repair by giving it a tug on a jig but the insurer will have to put it back to how it was before and a tug is unlikely to do that.

This is what I wrote down once if you can be bothered to read it!

Estimation

The insurer will likely try and get you to go to one of their recommended repairers. Knowing what they are like I can honestly say this is for the best and taking the car to your garage is a pain for the insurer, a pain for you and a pain for your repairer. Insurers use a system for estimating called Audatex (normally, some use glassmatrix) which has schematics of most vehicles. It automatically calculated paint, part and labour costs. A lot of non-recommended garages will not have this which make communication between engineers and the garage difficult to say the least. There are additional delays in dishing your estimate out to an engineer and you may be liable for cost of estimation/diagnostic. Using a recommended repairer is free and they are usually PAS125 approved http://www.bsigroup.co.uk/en-GB/our...hemes/vehicle-damage-repair-kitemark-pas-125/ . Labour rates are low at recommended garages so if you want new parts your car is less likely to be written off. On the counters many of them will not use second hand parts.

If/When your car is written off it will be given a marker anywhere from A to D

Key
Pav - pre-accident value
ABI - association of british insurers
FOS - financial ombudsman service


A = has to be crushed - usually a complete burn out - insurer gets 0% of pav
B = vehicle can only be used for parts. We used to get 8% of pav and 10% on cars worth more than about 30k
C = ABI says any car where the repairs are more than 100% of the pav should be categorised as a C. Some insurers stretch this rule and don't make the car a C until about 120-130%. This is to get a higher salvage value. Depending on the value the insurer can stand to get anywhere between 10 and 35%. Pav of circa 2k would be about 22-25% if I remember right :)
D = the repairs are less than 100% (if abi rule stuck to 100%) but more than the repairable threshold (see below)
Uncategorised = technically repairable (repairs below the repairable threshold) but the insurer does not want because of many factors; time, potential further damage, complexity of repairs.

Repairable threshold (pure) is worked out buy getting the PAV of a car and deducting the category D salvage value. For example salvage value on a 2k car might be 25% so this car could be repaired up to £1500. This is not a strict rule as insurers can make a vehicle uncategorised by asking the salvage agent for a better salvage value. This is called "bridging the gap" and could make the 2k car only repairable to £900 if they got 55%.

Bridging the gap can be used for many things. Flood cars where there may be further damage down the line and they will not be able to offer guarantee on repairs further down the line. Example: I once saw a Scirocco that had a bent floor pan from being t-boned. Even with a complete replacement side and floor the repairs were still half the value of the car. Category D salvage value of around 35-40% made the car repairable. Bridge the gap used as it was a repair that may have further complications and the customer understandably did not want the car back.

Retaining salvage. You can expect to pay whatever the insurance company expects to receive from the salvage company. As a policy holder you are technically able to retain salvage of B, C and D cars. Most companies do not like the retention of B especially when a fire is involved. As you own the car until you have received a pay out you can refuse for it to be collected by the salvage company until this time.

Valuation of the car by the insurers - All policies bar specialist are what's called "market value." This means anything the insurer wants it to. It can encompass private sales, independent dealers and dealer ships. Most insurers will use a combination of advertisements and the guide values (Glass’s, CAPs and less commonly parkers as it’s unreliable)

Specification is important for their examples and yours a like. It is also important to place a fair value on optional extras which are particularly rare like Recaros in a Clio. You can either get the new cost and depreciate it as much as the car has since new or compare vehicles with and without the option, taking an average.

Adverts. There is no set rule on this but there are idiots in the world. Cars need to be within a year either way of the reg, as similar spec as possible and mileage 10K either way. Weighting should be given to cars which are closer to the customers address. I used to do a 40 mile search and the extend as needed. If the policy holder needed more locally they would and should get it.

Previous total loss. FOS does not specify a deduction amount. If no previous signs of repair are visible then it is not reasonable for a deduction. Repair quality really varies on cars like this. It takes a lot to write a 1 year old car off. It takes very little to write the same car off 10 years later. The category does not show the extent. Commonly people think a category D is only cosmetic damage but this isn’t the case. A 1 year old cat D can be in a terrible way, just have a look on copart. Limited damage information is usually available on the insurance anti fraud database which gives the address of claimant, date of write off, area of damage, mileage and other optional information. I have seen a car with a chassis repaired with brass brazing, cable ties, super glue and news paper. Trade price was offered and I am surprised the car was even driveable. Expect at least 10% deduction on cat D and 20% on cat C.

Guides

Glasses guide - You can get on the internet is the consumer version and there is a foot note saying “not for insurance valuation purposes.” It is a complete waste of money for a dispute. Industry Glasses evaluator gives asking, transaction, 3 auction grade and finally, trade price. They will work from transacted as that’s what you actually stand to pay. All advertised vehicle prices are negotiable. This guide is good for most vehicles and does take account of some common options. Other options called “not valued” mean they do not increase the value but only the desirability.

Caps - Tends to be more accurate for vehicles worth sub 10k. You cannot currently take account of options with this guide. Provides retail, auction grade and trade prices.

Parkers – rarely good and lots of companies do not subscribe to this service. I have never used this so cannot comment too much but from my limited exposure to it the valuations were often thousands out.

Dispute

Starts off with the insurers and usually and will involve the exchange of vehicle adverts. Just be realistic, the people valuing the cars can see through the lies of “my car was mint”. It is heard every single day more than once. Should your car be immaculate sending images of it when it’s really clean would certainly help them sympathise. Be realistic with the valuation and do make deductions (below) fuel your dispute. The FOS will not take this into account.

If you reach an impasse with the insurer they may issue a “final response.” This means they are happy with what they have offered and will now pass the dispute to the FOS for arbitration. If you are in this situation your argument may well be flawed as this is a last resort for the insurer and does make their figures look bad. Should you be confident they are still wrong go with it. The FOS will look at the whole claim and has the power to make the insurer pay more. The FOS use the 3 guides (they use no adverts unless the car is a specialist modified/classic market) and take an average. If one of the guides is out of line with the other 2 it is omitted. Usually they side with the customer if possible but as the insurer will send the dispute there as a last resort they are normally confident the FOS will agree with their valuation. This FOS process can take weeks/months. See notes 5 and 8 for more details http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/motor-valuation.html#8

Deductions – from the settlement will be your claims excess and if you pay your premiums monthly you will have to pay the remainder of the years policy from the settlement as well. If the claim is a non fault they may allow you to continue to pay monthly but this is at the insurer’s discretion. If you have paid in 1 lump sum you will not be entitled to a refund unless it’s 100% non fault and the insurer has not had to pay a penny out on the claim.
 
  Renault clio
Yes we drove it back from the garage it was held at for a day as they deemed it safe,didn't want to go through insurance and premiums will go up,but I'm pleased you said it's repairable that's a relief get I back on the road :)
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
  335d
the ph1 172 I had in the summer had a crease in the boot floor. Drove it for thousands of miles, round the ring and through all the alps. It's really nothing to worry about. If the boot is difficult to close do a Jeremy Clarkson and hit it out with a hammer, the boot floors are weak, the rails are the strong part.
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
  335d
Its odd really,why are insurance companies so keen to write off a damaged boot floor if its not too difficult to fix ?
time is money. Complications may be found with an older car when replacing panels, there is just an increased risk of carrying out work like that in a car which isn't worth a great deal.

If it were a new car with plenty of money left in the pot before it became a t loss then it would be repaired in an instant
 


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