Cam belt locking tools

[Mr R.]

I called my local Renault deailer today to order a aux belt kit and the tools for locking the cams and crank in place.

They told me that there was only two tools for this job, one being the pin to lock the crank and the other being the tool for the cams (above the gearbox)

I said that i thought there was 3 parts which was the tool for the cam sprockets which they did not seem to know about the parts guy even ask 2 of his "techs" and they both said the only tools needed where the 2 he had said

Can anyone please let me know if this is right or if there are 3 tools then can i have a part number of the 3rd tool.

Cheers:approve:

 

[sideways danny]

 

[Ian_s]

If your just doing the aux belt you dont need any of the locking tools? Just need one (that you can make) for the tensioner.

 

[Mr R.]

Cheers Danny, i take it this is Renualt tool that i need but that the dealer does not seem know about?

Do you have a part number or its name so i can get this one sorted tomo?

Also is there a step by step guide on "how to" do a cam belt anywhere on here?

Thanks again...

 

[Mr R.]

If your just doing the aux belt you dont need any of the locking tools? Just need one (that you can make) for the tensioner.

Thanks, sorry i forgot to say i was doing my cam belt as well sorry my bad....

 

[Ian_s]

Thanks, sorry i forgot to say i was doing my cam belt as well sorry my bad....

I thought as much I was just checking! Theres a guide (in the guides section funily enough :rasp

 

[CuppyDean]

Thanks, sorry i forgot to say i was doing my cam belt as well sorry my bad....

Your very brave for doing the cambelt

 

[Darren85]

Your very brave for doing the cambelt

From what I've read, he is VERY capable

 

[CuppyDean]

From what I've read, he is VERY capable

My bad, thought he was a noob like myself, least he can save some money

 

[f0xy]

TDC/Crank Pin - 0000105400 - £8.98
Extra Longer Cog + Spacers + Nut - 0000150901 - £16.56
Camshaft Locking Tool - 0000149600 - £40.50
Pulley Locking Tool - 7711381801 - £40.50

£123.30 inc the VAT when I bought them IIRC...

 

[Mr R.]

Your very brave for doing the cambelt

Brave or just plan stupid...:rasp: I worked on Aston Martins for over 10 years and am now a engineer in the newspaper print for just over 8 years now and have been going back to the Aston garage on my days off for about 5 years now.

It does not matter how long my cam belt takes me as its just a toy.
In saying all of this i have never done a belt on a Clio so all the info and help will be great.

Cheers all

 

[CuppyDean]

Brave or just plan stupid...:rasp: I worked on Aston Martins for over 10 years and am now a engineer in the newspaper print for just over 8 years now and have been going back to the Aston garage on my days off for about 5 years now.

It does not matter how long my cam belt takes me as its just a toy.
In saying all of this i have never done a belt on a Clio so all the info and help will be great.

Cheers all

Well your more than capable lol, i think its just a bit of a fiddly job to do, even more if a/c is involved, im sure you will be fine im sure a specialist will tell you the key things to do when changing it

 

[Mr R.]

TDC/Crank Pin - 0000105400 - £8.98
Extra Longer Cog + Spacers + Nut - 0000150901 - £16.56
Camshaft Locking Tool - 0000149600 - £40.50
Pulley Locking Tool - 7711381801 - £40.50

£123.30 inc the VAT when I bought them IIRC...

Thank you very much, i will call them tomo with these part numbers

Cheers

 

[sideways danny]

http://www.fastchip.nl/media/doc/clio2/F4R_730.pdf

you'll need this

 

[Mr R.]

Wow thanks alot danny, thats great

Regards....

 

[sussex_gti]

f0xy, will Renault recognise those part numbers, or do they need ordering from someone like SPX? For the price of the pulley locking tool, I may well buy one.

 

[CuppyDean]

f0xy, will Renault recognise those part numbers, or do they need ordering from someone like SPX? For the price of the pulley locking tool, I may well buy one.

They should recognise them as there renault part numbers

 

[f0xy]

Renault will be fine with them

 

[iimushroomzii]

Cheaper then I thought for the tools, I'd have a go myself.

 

[Rob]

There is also a "how to" guide (with pics and everything) somewhere burried on here, I'll try to dig it out for you and send you the link via PM.

 

[Fred@BTM]

and from memory its not 100% correct, i'll have another look over it

you MUST back off the inlet and exhaust cam pullies with the cams and crank locked, set the belt tension, and rotate the belt over at least twice and recheck the belt tension BEFORE you tighten up all the pullies

 

[sussex_gti]

When you say back the cam pullies off Fred, do you mean by loosening the cam pulley bolt? On the Nissans with the Renault diesel engines, you have 3 8mm bolts that you have to loosen, which loosens the toothed part of the pulley to tension correctly (kind of like a vernier pulley) but from pics i've seen, its not the same on 172 pullies. Hope i'm making sense!

 

[Fred@BTM]

no the main 18mm bolt (inlet) and nut (exhaust) have to be backed off, that means loosened incase people don't know what the term backed off means!

 

[sussex_gti]

Ahh, thought you meant back off the pulley, as Renault use this term sometimes, and mean loosen the centre of the pulley! So just loosen the 18mm nut, then tension, re-tighten, then rotate twice and re-check as you would as usual with any other belt? I'm guessing you do this once the belt is fitted and before you tension?

 

[Fred@BTM]

no no no

undo inlet and exhaust cam (crank pulley will already be loose by this point)

fit new belt and tension

rotate cam assemlbly at least twice, i do it backwards, with ALL the pullies loose (inlet, exhaust and crank) but the cams/crank are still locked in place

check tension

THEN and only then if the tension marks line up you re torque the cam/crank pullies

remove locking tools

THEN you turn the engine over a few times by hand and THEN check the cam timing

 

[sussex_gti]

Ok. So i'm guessing the cam pullies arn't keyed, same as the crank? Do you put any paint marks on the cam and crank pullies, to make sure they are still in time?

 

[Fred@BTM]

no need to paint anything

no keyways no

 

[f0xy]

None of it is keyed. You check its in time by re-fitting the crank pin and cam 'horseshoe' tool in the end cam slots once its timed up

 

[sussex_gti]

Ahh, its just clicked. If none of it is keyed, and all the internal parts are locked, theres no way it can be out of time when you rotate then re-torque the cam pullies. Cheers Fred, just took a bit of thinking over in my head, i'm a bit slow today! Thanks for the quick replies.

 

[Fred@BTM]

you'll see why people not in the know f**k them up, just a bit of a long winded process

check, check, re check and check again, i can do them with my eyes closed but i always check at least 3 times, even for a pro one slip and you can f**k it up

 

[sussex_gti]

Yep, it does seem much more involved than anything i've done before. Just nice to get as much info as possible. I know that even the Genuine workshop manuals never give the advice that Specialists can. Thanks again.

 

[Fred@BTM]

one of the procedures in the manual doesn't work and always f***s the timing go figure!

 

[sideways danny]

just in addition to slacking the pulleys, you MUST fully remove at least the de-phaser pulley and de-grease all the contact surfaces. It's essentially a friction fit, so any oil between surfaces is compromising that

 

[sussex_gti]

one of the procedures in the manual doesn't work and always f**ks the timing go figure!

Amen to that. Took a Nissan Patrol gearbox out yesterday. Service manual states to just remove the props, exhaust, crossmember and bellhousing bolts, then remove box. Doesnt state to use 2 gearbox jacks as the b******s made it out of cast iron, swear, and spend 20 minutes struggling with lever bars as they leave no room between bellhousing and transmission tunnel! What procedure is wrong that buggers the timing up?

just in addition to slacking the pulleys, you MUST fully remove at least the de-phaser pulley and de-grease all the contact surfaces. It's essentially a friction fit, so any oil between surfaces is compromising that

Cheers Danny. Just a case of a bit of brake cleaner and a wipe round?

 

[Fred@BTM]

there's one procedure that says to just use the horse shoe tool and crank pin only, this is incorrect, you tension the belt up, but that only tensions the belt on one side of the belt run and hence when the engine is rotated over the tension equalises over the entire belt, the tensioner moves and also hence the cam pullies move ever so slightly due to the lack of tension which = timing will be off

bit complicated to explain, in simple terms YOU MUST undo the cam pullies, no arguements

 

[sideways danny]

Amen to that. Took a Nissan Patrol gearbox out yesterday. Service manual states to just remove the props, exhaust, crossmember and bellhousing bolts, then remove box. Doesnt state to use 2 gearbox jacks as the b*****ds made it out of cast iron, swear, and spend 20 minutes struggling with lever bars as they leave no room between bellhousing and transmission tunnel! What procedure is wrong that buggers the timing up?

Every nissan i've ever done is like that, normally just need to disconnect the exhaust and it tips the engine right back

Cheers Danny. Just a case of a bit of brake cleaner and a wipe round?

i prefer to flush the pulley out with de-greaser in a tank, then blast off with a little brake cleaner. Brake cleaner will do the job on it's own, but give it a really good dose to flush the old oil out

 

[sussex_gti]

there's one procedure that says to just use the horse shoe tool and crank pin only, this is incorrect, you tension the belt up, but that only tensions the belt on one side of the belt run and hence when the engine is rotated over the tension equalises over the entire belt, the tensioner moves and also hence the cam pullies move ever so slightly due to the lack of tension which = timing will be off

bit complicated to explain, in simple terms YOU MUST undo the cam pullies, no arguements

Thanks again. This explains the need for the front locking tool as well. I couldnt work out why You'd need it, as I thought the cams are locked at the back, and if the pullies arnt keyed, providing the crank and rear of the cams are locked, it should stay in time no?

But looking at the front tool again, it seems you almost set it up when you fit it, then tension the belt as you mention, then providing ALL 3 tools fit, its in time? As if the pullies had moved that slight amount, the front tool wouldnt fit back in place once youve fitted the crank and rear cam locking tool? Really hope i'm making sense!

Every nissan i've ever done is like that, normally just need to disconnect the exhaust and it tips the engine right back



i prefer to flush the pulley out with de-greaser in a tank, then blast off with a little brake cleaner. Brake cleaner will do the job on it's own, but give it a really good dose to flush the old oil out

Exhaust is off! The bellhousing was just wedged against the transmission tunnel. I've slightly 'modified' the tunnel to re-fit, which judging by the other dealers i've spoken to in the past seems the norm.

 

[Fred@BTM]

no you're confusing yourself

easier to give me a call and i'll explain it! LOL

 

[sideways danny]

the front tool isn't really to do with timing as such. The actual position of the pulleys doesn't matter at all. By fitting the pulley locking tool (AFTER tensioning the belt) you are holding the pulleys still while torquing the pulleys up to stop the cams (and cam lock tool) from twisting

 

[The Boosh!]

Fred/Danny if one of you can copy the guide in the guides section, ammend the bits that are incorrect, then PM it me, I will update it. A job such as that needs to be done correctly.