Cambelt, worth getting anything else done at the same time?

[realnumber 1]

Right I'll be booking my car in for a cambelt in the next week or two.
So far I'm thinking I will need the cambelt kit, aux belt and water pump changing.

Is there anything else I might as well get done at the same time for little extra labour? Engine mounts, gearbox oil..........

Also is the cam locking tool specifically just called that and is it the same one used on all Mk2 Clio's? Reason I ask is I will be getting a cambelt specialist to do it but want to make sure they have said tool.

Car is is a 53 plate on 63k and had the aux belt done on 58k when I bought it.

Thanks Real.

 

[Sean6545]

Thats all you will need exept two cam end oil seals they will have to break to get out and the aux belt tensioner. The F4R uses a specific crank locking pin but the same camshaft locking tools as the K4M engine. If there a cambelt specialist, Im sure they know all about floating systems.

 

[Alastair.]

u remove the cam oil seals 2 fit the cam locking tool, auxilery is on the other side of the engine m8

 

[.GAZ.]

water pump!

 

[sideways danny]

The F4R uses a specific crank locking pin but the same camshaft locking tools as the K4M engine.

not so, the cam alignment bar is the same but the pulley locking tool is different

 

[Sean6545]

Yeah I know the aux belt is on the other side of the engine, I was just saying that was wat else he needed.

The crank locking pin on K4M goes up against the crank webbing and only locks it one way where as the F4R it goes into a hole on the webbing and locks it either way. The acutal camshaft locking tool is the same as the K4M but the pulley Locking tool is different. You dont nessasarally (sp) need the pulley locking tool because you dont need to loosen the pulleys.

Hope this makes it clearer for some people.

 

[len_beach]

Where are you having this done mate? How much are you paying?

 

[realnumber 1]

Yeah I know the aux belt is on the other side of the engine, I was just saying that was wat else he needed.

The crank locking pin on K4M goes up against the crank webbing and only locks it one way where as the F4R it goes into a hole on the webbing and locks it either way. The acutal camshaft locking tool is the same as the K4M but the pulley Locking tool is different. You dont nessasarally (sp) need the pulley locking tool because you dont need to loosen the pulleys.

Hope this makes it clearer for some people.

Cheers for the responses.
So for the tool I just need to make sure he has a camshaft locking tool that will fit a k4m?

 

[Sean6545]

Yeah but it uses a different pin.

Tool numbers are circled here,

 

[realnumber 1]

Where are you having this done mate? How much are you paying?

My neighbour is an AA man and recommended a cambelt specialist he knows just down the road in Milnsbrige.
As I know the AA man he will do me all the parts at cost and got quoted around £300-320 or something about 6 months ago (without the water pump though).
He's also the type (so AA man says) that will get the right tools if doesn't already have them.

 

[benmore]

you may not even need a water pump. ren tec inspected mine once removed, and said that it was in good condition, so no need to replace. also said they have never known one to go.

touch wood lol


will find a puddle under my motor now at some point in the near future.. jinx

 

[realnumber 1]

Yeah but it uses a different pin.

Tool numbers are circled here,

[/IMG]

Thanks will print that out and show him.

you may not even need a water pump. ren tec inspected mine once removed, and said that it was in good condition, so no need to replace. also said they have never known one to go.

touch wood lol


will find a puddle under my motor now at some point in the near future.. jinx

When reading around on here I got the impression you might as well change it whilst your there for the price?

 

[Gray]

A set of different cams

 

[realnumber 1]

If only I could afford better cams

 

[BenR]

I dont know where all this hype over changing the water pump has come from.

Unless your running on salt water, they tend to come off looking brand new.

 

[sideways danny]

I dont know where all this hype over changing the water pump has come from.

Unless your running on salt water, they tend to come off looking brand new.

got to agree TBH, not like they have a big ass fan hanging off the pulley like some engines either, the bearings wont see a lot of grief at all IMO

 

[BenR]

renault must of made a killing on waterpump sales.

 

[Alastair.]

k4m lumps r the worst for water pumps, we always pre pick 1 now when we hav 1 in for a cambelt service

 

[sideways danny]

k4m lumps r the worst for water pumps, we always pre pick 1 now when we hav 1 in for a cambelt service

will admit to our laguna having a knackered pump, but that had stood for a year with a snapped cambelt

 

[Alastair.]

the last 3 k4m water pumps ive done had looked like christmas trees with all that dried residue crap

 

[franx]

? something around 50 pounds for a new waterpump is'nt it?
I'm going to change it, you never know..

and also CAMS

 

[mark123]

I'm sure I'll get lambasted but, if your mechanic if half decent and you aren't going to need to remove the cam pulleys, which you won't for the jobs you've listed. He won't need any special tools.

You can lock the crank with an 8mm drill bit, inserted backwards.

You can mark the cam positions relative to the head to avoid having to use the locking tool. This also negates the need to remove the two seals at the gearbox end of the engine. It is relatively straight forward to then realign the cam pulleys with the marks when you fit the new belt.

I have done this myself.

 

[Sean6545]

the last 3 k4m water pumps ive done had looked like christmas trees with all that dried residue crap

Iv got to agree, only low mileage cars really that dont tend to have staining under the pulley.

 

[gtruk]

Better safe than sorry in regards to the water pump. For the sake of 75 quid for the part, might as well have it changed, just on the off chance that it ever does mess up, that way you save on 300 labour charge or whatever its will be.

The actual camblet kit should cost 89.00 + vat and the aux belt roughly 18.00 plus VAT. The water pump is 75.00 plus vat i believe. So the parts shouldnt exceed more than about 180. The labour about 300... Sounds like the AA man is quoting quite highly on parts, when OEM parts arent that expensive.

 

[sideways danny]

I'm sure I'll get lambasted but, if your mechanic if half decent and you aren't going to need to remove the cam pulleys, which you won't for the jobs you've listed. He won't need any special tools.

You can lock the crank with an 8mm drill bit, inserted backwards.

You can mark the cam positions relative to the head to avoid having to use the locking tool. This also negates the need to remove the two seals at the gearbox end of the engine. It is relatively straight forward to then realign the cam pulleys with the marks when you fit the new belt.

I have done this myself.

to be honest all I can say is dont post info like this as it's so utterly wrong it's making me cringe and people will listen to it because it's cheap

 

[mattjk]

its okay to lock the crack with a drill bit but i wouldnt do the cams as suggested

 

[realnumber 1]

Better safe than sorry in regards to the water pump. For the sake of 75 quid for the part, might as well have it changed, just on the off chance that it ever does mess up, that way you save on 300 labour charge or whatever its will be.

The actual camblet kit should cost 89.00 + vat and the aux belt roughly 18.00 plus VAT. The water pump is 75.00 plus vat i believe. So the parts shouldnt exceed more than about 180. The labour about 300... Sounds like the AA man is quoting quite highly on parts, when OEM parts arent that expensive.

The 300-320 was for the job lot including parts appart from the water pump, which I thought was very good.

 

[mark123]

I'm sure I'll get lambasted but, if your mechanic if half decent and you aren't going to need to remove the cam pulleys, which you won't for the jobs you've listed. He won't need any special tools.

You can lock the crank with an 8mm drill bit, inserted backwards.

You can mark the cam positions relative to the head to avoid having to use the locking tool. This also negates the need to remove the two seals at the gearbox end of the engine. It is relatively straight forward to then realign the cam pulleys with the marks when you fit the new belt.

I have done this myself.

to be honest all I can say is dont post info like this as it's so utterly wrong it's making me cringe and people will listen to it because it's cheap

So what is wrong about it, be specific.

 

[mattjk]

I would guess because the engines are very sensitive to the timing.

 

[mark123]

Marking the cams pulleys against the head will be just as accurate as using the tool as long as you don't remove the cam pulleys. You would have to get it a whole tooth out to get it wrong and that would be obvious from the marks you made.

 

[sideways danny]

Marking the cams pulleys against the head will be just as accurate as using the tool as long as you don't remove the cam pulleys. You would have to get it a whole tooth out to get it wrong and that would be obvious from the marks you made.

that doesn't work bacause the timing can change just with different belt tension, and a new belt will certainly have stretched less than an old one too.

 

[Sean6545]

Just do it the proper way, end of.

 

[realnumber 1]

Well thanks for the responses folks, looks like there is a lot to consider:S . My AA man highly recommends this guy so will have a chat with him.
If say he guaranteed his work for a year would that would be enough if he did it wrong?
Also if anyone does think of any little jobs to do whilst the cars in bits feel free to advice still

 

[len_beach]

Where are you having this done mate? How much are you paying?

My neighbour is an AA man and recommended a cambelt specialist he knows just down the road in Milnsbrige.
As I know the AA man he will do me all the parts at cost and got quoted around £300-320 or something about 6 months ago (without the water pump though).
He's also the type (so AA man says) that will get the right tools if doesn't already have them.

I already have both cam and aux' belt kits, Do you think he would he fit these as you're not too far away.

I have been quoted £300 just for fitting in the past.

 

[realnumber 1]

My neighbour is an AA man and recommended a cambelt specialist he knows just down the road in Milnsbrige.
As I know the AA man he will do me all the parts at cost and got quoted around £300-320 or something about 6 months ago (without the water pump though).
He's also the type (so AA man says) that will get the right tools if doesn't already have them.

I already have both cam and aux' belt kits, Do you think he would he fit these as you're not too far away.

I have been quoted £300 just for fitting in the past.

Well once I know better I will let you know.
Maybe he might be up for a group fix I will certainly try lol.
Guessing yours is a 172 cup?

 

[mark123]

Marking the cams pulleys against the head will be just as accurate as using the tool as long as you don't remove the cam pulleys. You would have to get it a whole tooth out to get it wrong and that would be obvious from the marks you made.

that doesn't work bacause the timing can change just with different belt tension, and a new belt will certainly have stretched less than an old one too.

If the belt stretches as it ages then the timing will move anyway whether you use the tool or not. Using the tool the timing will be 100% right but doing it my way it'll be almost as good and the difference would be undetectable without measuring the timing with a dial gauge. Next time I do it I'll measure the difference with and without the tool.

 

[gtruk]

While they are doing ur belt, ask him to check engine mounts and cv clips. These are two things that recently went on mine which GDI fixed whilst doing engine work

 

[realnumber 1]

Just an update for anyone interested
I have just got home from picking my car up after getting the cambelt done.
To say I'm happy is an understatement
Just got it done for £270 without the water pump because he said it looked as good as new still.
Admittedly i got mates rates but still........I'm very happy.