Clio 182 - Removing AC & HPAS

[R29TJR]

Good Afternoon All,

I'm toying with the idea of removing the AC & HPAS in my Clio 182 Cup. Firstly this car is only used for track/fun driving and will only do a few thousand miles a year.

I would look to replace the power steering with an EPAS set up (DCI column, return pipe on current rack, plugs & ebay EPAS set up) and ideally run a 172 Cup alternator set up, plus I'm still missing the bolt which I believe has been discontinued.

However this set up isn't going to come cheap...

Including a new alternator I'm looking at spending around £300.00 in the new alternator set up and then around another £100.00 for the steering set up so all in all I'm looking at around £400.00.

If that's the cost then so be it but I just wanted to ensure I hadn't missed any other options.

I may try to to fix my current set up currently leaking from the joint by the alternator but if that is going to cost me the pipe cost I may as well look to do the above set up.

Thanks in advance.

Tom

 

[JB21]

Use the DCI rack as well as its slightly less weight and is solid mounted so no rack bushes, and you can use your existing track rods and ends. I've just had all the above done and its definitely worthwhile, are you going with the controller as well for the EPAS?

 

[R29TJR]

Use the DCI rack as well as its slightly less weight and is solid mounted so no rack bushes, and you can use your existing track rods and ends. I've just had all the above done and its definitely worthwhile, are you going with the controller as well for the EPAS?

I was planning on going with a controller. TBH I didn't know you could run it without.

How do you find the feel of the EPAS? I've heard a few mixed reports.

 

[JB21]

Erm...needs a bit of getting used to but is much better than the HPAS but my rack bushes where non existent so it was always going to feel better. I'm at Oulton Saturday so that's the real test but it should be much better.

 

[JamesBryan]

Erm...needs a bit of getting used to but is much better than the HPAS but my rack bushes where non existent so it was always going to feel better. I'm at Oulton Saturday so that's the real test but it should be much better.

Dibs on a drive around the car park on Saturday to feel it?

 

[JB21]

Dibs on a drive around the car park on Saturday to feel it?

Yeah no worries mate, make sure you have your Weetabix for breakfast as with no assistance its horrendous. Spirited driving on the road I'm a 1/4 of a turn from full assistance. Tried it with no assistance and nearly didn't make the corning it was that stiff, lol. On track it will be around 1/2 I reckon.

 

[JamesBryan]

Yeah no worries mate, make sure you have your Weetabix for breakfast as with no assistance its horrendous. Spirited driving on the road I'm a 1/4 of a turn from full assistance. Tried it with no assistance and nearly didn't make the corning it was that stiff, lol. On track it will be around 1/2 I reckon.

Like when my PAS went at Druids, f**k me that was heavy!

 

[JB21]

Like when my PAS went at Druids, f**k me that was heavy!

Yeah its awful, see what you think though. Are you considering EPAS?

 

[JamesBryan]

Yeah its awful, see what you think though. Are you considering EPAS?

I will if it goes again. Not now i've had it fixed, getting my £400 worth now haha.

 

[JB21]

I will if it goes again. Not now i've had it fixed, getting my £400 worth now haha.

Jesus is that what it cost to repair yeah! Glad I went EPAS now for that reason alone, lol.

 

[JamesBryan]

Jesus is that what it cost to repair yeah! Glad I went EPAS now for that reason alone, lol.

Yeah mate for the pump, aux belt kit and labour.

 

[R29TJR]

I will if it goes again. Not now i've had it fixed, getting my £400 worth now haha.

This is my conundrum, I'm already £230 into the hydraulic system as I recently got a new pipe which goes around the gear box and I also only got a brand new alternator less than a year ago both of which will be redundant...

 

[JamesBryan]

This is my conundrum, I'm already £230 into the hydraulic system as I recently got a new pipe which goes around the gear box and I also only got a brand new alternator less than a year ago both of which will be redundant...

If i wouldn't have needed the car to drive to Le Mans a week after it went, i would have definitely got the conversion done.

 

[bloke]

Go for the pms ac delete kit and you can use your alternator.

 

[R29TJR]

If i wouldn't have needed the car to drive to Le Mans a week after it went, i would have definitely got the conversion done.

I feel your pain. I was the very same as I needed my car working for Cadwell so had to go with the quickest option to get working.

Go for the pms ac delete kit and you can use your alternator.

I did look at this however I'm not sure this will work if I want to remove HPAS? Plus IMO its better to remove as many pully's as possible!

 

[bloke]

Yup it works, unless you run electric water pump you can't have less than three pulleys anyway.

 

[R29TJR]

Yup it works, unless you run electric water pump you can't have less than three pulleys anyway.

Cheers @bloke

So with the PMS kit what happens with the power steering pulley? Sorry I just don’t understand what would happen.

 

[bloke]

you don't have one, crank pulley, water pump pulley and alternator pulley.

 

[R29TJR]

you don't have one, crank pulley, water pump pulley and alternator pulley.

That makes sense then!

I didn’t realise the PMS kit allowed you to remove the HPAS. I’ve just checked and you can add on this but again I’m up to £255. So only a £45 saving over a 172 Cup set up with a brand new alternator...

 

[R29TJR]

So I've just quickly priced up all the parts I can easily locate, all parts are based on brand new items directly from Renault:

172 Cup Alternator Setup

• 172 Cup Alternator - £141.46
• 172 Cup Alternator Bracket I - £41.40
• 172 Cup Alternator Bracket II - £94.82
• Adjusting Bolt - £25.00
• 172 Cup Belt - £12.35

EPAS Setup

• Loop kit - £45.00
• EPAS Kit - £38.99
• Electronic Steering Column - Around £40 ebay

Have I missed anything?

I'm still not 100% convinced TBH...

Tom

 

[Akay]

Buy a cheap cupsetup (100ish usually), then get the alternator from RPD on exchange for 90ish I believe if you absolutely must have a new alternator, the brackets will be fine used! Adjuster you can get an uprated stainless one off ebay for £20.00.

I would get a DCI rack for £30ish (make sure its 2.75 turns), and swap the old rack out.

The belt is incorrect if as you are binning the pump, you need a 4pk 847 belt iirc.

 

[R29TJR]

Buy a cheap cupsetup (100ish usually), then get the alternator from RPD on exchange for 90ish I believe if you absolutely must have a new alternator, the brackets will be fine used! Adjuster you can get an uprated stainless one off ebay for £20.00.

I would get a DCI rack for £30ish (make sure its 2.75 turns), and swap the old rack out.

The belt is incorrect if as you are binning the pump, you need a 4pk 847 belt iirc.

Finding a 2nd hand set up is the hard part!

 

[R29TJR]

Parts Ordered

So over the last week or so I've managed to locate the following:

• 172 Cup Alternator Setup
• Brand new adjuster bolt
• belt (cheers @GrahamS)
• Loop kit
• DCI column
• eBay EPAS kit

I've just need to order a new alternator and I'm done!

I had a quick hour spare so removed the bumper and slam panel.

I'm aiming to get it all working before Sunday 17th December 2017...

 

[hipwell]

Parts Ordered

So over the last week or so I've managed to locate the following:

• 172 Cup Alternator Setup
• Brand new adjuster bolt
• belt (cheers @GrahamS)
• Loop kit
• DCI column
• eBay EPAS kit

I've just need to order a new alternator and I'm done!

I had a quick hour spare so removed the bumper and slam panel.

I'm aiming to get it all working before Sunday 17th December 2017...

Is the steering rack kept the same and all the electrical items are in the dci steering collumn?

 

[R29TJR]

Is the steering rack kept the same and all the electrical items are in the dci steering collumn?

You can change to the DCI rack as all the track road ends and number of turns is the same however I'm sticking with the standard rack and just changing the column. Like you said all the working are in the DCI column.

 

[JB21]

I went with the DCI rack as it's lighter and is solid mounted so no bushes to perish.

 

[R29TJR]

I went with the DCI rack as it's lighter and is solid mounted so no bushes to perish.

I'm sure i'll change at some point however for ease at present I'll stick with the standard rack.

 

[Usr117063]

Erm...needs a bit of getting used to but is much better than the HPAS but my rack bushes where non existent so it was always going to feel better. I'm at Oulton Saturday so that's the real test but it should be much better.

Im really interested in doing this conversion being such a cheap mod for how much it does. But some people say about the feeling of it is not as good as hydraulic, so if you were to set up the same resistance on the epas setup as a stock hydraulic, what would actually feel different? Something about centering as well?

How much variation in resistance can you get with the kit?

 

[JB21]

Im really interested in doing this conversion being such a cheap mod for how much it does. But some people say about the feeling of it is not as good as hydraulic, so if you were to set up the same resistance on the epas setup as a stock hydraulic, what would actually feel different? Something about centering as well?

How much variation in resistance can you get with the kit?

Variation is from really light (how I have it on the road) to pretty much unsteerable with no assistance. I personally think its great for the road but a bit inconsistent on track as it changes resistance depending on the type of corner e.g on the entry to the highly cambered Shell at Oulton it will go quite stiff even on a fairly assisted setting, then back to light again on exit. Regarding feeling its definitely more artificial compared to HPAS. I really only wanted it for reliability and the fact its solid mounted so zero play in the wheel, and the latter is definitely a good benefit as the HPAS had lots of play but again I think this was due to perished rack bushes. When jumping back into my daily Mondeo ST I much prefer the feel of HPAS.

Hope that helps.

 

[bozothenutter]

Yup it works, unless you run electric water pump you can't have less than three pulleys anyway.

electric water pomp?
there is one for the 1*2?

pray tell!

 

[bloke]

electric water pomp?
there is one for the 1*2?

pray tell!

You would just need to get a blank made for the waterpump and his use a universal online pump. Easy enough to do.

 

[bozothenutter]

You would just need to get a blank made for the waterpump and his use a universal online pump. Easy enough to do.

so advantages would be less drag on the engine from pump (though more from alternator) I assume?
would this mean getting rid of the thermostat and having the pump become variable?

anyone ever done this?

 

[Usr117063]

@JB21

Thanks, I was kinda hoping that something like inconsistency wasnt one of the by products. Ive just set up some neg up front and a bit more in the rears, mines a road car with the outlook for track once I feel settled, but the steering feels very nice right now, its the right sort of resistance but Its more predictable and has good feedback in the corner. Think Ill just freshen the rack bushes for now!

 

[R29TJR]

From my research providing the EPAS is set up correctly and all parts are in good working order the feel of the steering is good.

IMO the main benefit is the piece of mind when on track that a issue with AC or power steering will not effect the engine. There are plenty of people who run EPAS racks and speak highly of them.

 

[bloke]

so advantages would be less drag on the engine from pump (though more from alternator) I assume?
would this mean getting rid of the thermostat and having the pump become variable?

anyone ever done this?

Easy to do, not done a Clio though. No need for the stat as the flow of the pump takes care of ot. No more drag from the alternator though.

 

[Usr117063]

@a17vts

I think Im going to just have it on my 'list' and come back to it, Ive just got all the stuff for an abs delete braided setup and tend to get sidetracked and move on to other things. But Im definitely considering it, so it would be this column (needs to include ecu?) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-REN...sd=301905491041&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m350

 

[R29TJR]

@a17vts

I think Im going to just have it on my 'list' and come back to it, Ive just got all the stuff for an abs delete braided setup and tend to get sidetracked and move on to other things. But Im definitely considering it, so it would be this column (needs to include ecu?) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-RENAULT-CLIO-1-5-DCI-5DR-ELECTRIC-STEERING-COLUMN-8200091806/172959313616?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160727114228&meid=3b956e1108ac4120938921c660a0314b&pid=100290&rk=2&rkt=4&sd=301905491041&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m350

That's the puppy!

I'm in the process of gathering all the items and I believe @Stuiemc is at about the same stage, although unsure if he is keeping hits HPAS.

In an ideal world I would keep the HPAS however as I only use the car on track I want it as hassle free as possible.

 

[bloke]

@a17vts

I think Im going to just have it on my 'list' and come back to it, Ive just got all the stuff for an abs delete braided setup and tend to get sidetracked and move on to other things. But Im definitely considering it, so it would be this column (needs to include ecu?) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-RENAULT-CLIO-1-5-DCI-5DR-ELECTRIC-STEERING-COLUMN-8200091806/172959313616?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160727114228&meid=3b956e1108ac4120938921c660a0314b&pid=100290&rk=2&rkt=4&sd=301905491041&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m350

you need the full column down to the uj for the rack.

 

[Stuiemc]

I'm going EPAS also, stripped down the alternator, AC and PAS pump off yesterday. Need to tackle the hoses on the rack next had a quick go and not sure it's possible with the rack in place think I'll either have to drop the subframe or unbolt the rack. If I lower the subframe I'm going to fit ARP rob bolts whilst I'm at it. Only benefit of a DCI rack in my eyes is the solid mounting but I will be replacing the bushes with powerflex items so that's not an issue.

 

[R29TJR]

HELP!

I believe I've gathered all the parts to fit my EPAS & Cup alternator set up however I just need a little help on what bolts secure the 172 Cup alternator brackets to the vehicle.

Can anyone please confirm what bolts are required, I've currently got the following:

R77 03 002 847 - N/STK Screw £4.91 each Qty. 4
R77 03 002 682 - N STK Bolt M10x15 £5.83 each Qty. 1
R77 03 002 680 - N/STK Vis H Embas M £2.98 each Qty. 1
R77 03 002 964 - N/STK Screw £6.53 each Qty. 1
R77 03 002 855 - N/STK Vis Embas M £6.72 each Qty. 1
R77 03 002 148 - N/STK Nut £1.87 each Qty. 1
R77 03 002 244 - 0543 Nut £1.71 each Qty. 2

I think I've doubled up on a few parts but think I'm missing the actual bolts which secure the brackets to the block.

Thanks in advance.

Tom