Clio 197/182 hybrid engine help

[sennaalbronda]

Hello fellow enthousiast.
After a talk with @frayz about a BG182 with a 197. I'm in deep love with that car. So had a talk with my dad, and he said i'm allowed to finish his 182, he bought his 182 brand new in 2006 with all options ticked (setnav,cup packs etc). And after 500 miles he turbo'd it (ran about 311 bhp or something). Then it blew up with about 5000/6000 miles in 2009. Since then it has been dry stored since. Basically its a brand new 182, without a engine. So i'm going to finish it instead.

Basically i have tons of 197 parts availible (7 engines in spares) and 1 good and running 182 engine + a good ph1 head).
So i'm selling the 182 head and cams, 197 head and bare underblock.
So i'll take the 197 cams and pistons.
And fit them to the 182 engine.

I read its been done before, but i cant get any further with torque specs or any help. (I've done engines before btw). So maybe someone can help with instructions or torque specs. Maybe a list with what to order (can get 35% off at renault dealership).
Anyone here with tons of experience, would highly appriciate.

I will soon start up a project thread, so you guys can read along

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-N950F met Tapatalk

 

[Krarl]

I was going to undertake this with my 172

@NorthloopCup may be able to help with torque specs and setting things up

 

[sennaalbronda]

I was going to undertake this with my 172

@NorthloopCup may be able to help with torque specs and setting things up

Well why not? Its do-able with a budget of maybe 1000 quid. Maybe less. And the sound is amazing. If this build is succesfull i'll do more engines like that. For me its 200-300 more expensive then a normal engine refurb

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-N950F met Tapatalk

 

[Krarl]

Well why not? Its do-able with a budget of maybe 1000 quid. Maybe less. And the sound is amazing. If this build is succesfull i'll do more engines like that. For me its 200-300 more expensive then a normal engine refurb

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-N950F met Tapatalk

I have a house and 2 other cars to look after which have taken priority😢🤣

It will get done, not sure when, but it will happen

 

[sennaalbronda]

I have a house and 2 other cars to look after which have taken priority[emoji22][emoji1787]

It will get done, not sure when, but it will happen

Good mate, i'm sure you'll enjoy it. Hopefully i'll enjoy it.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-N950F met Tapatalk

 

[NorthloopCup]

All torque settings are as per a standard 172/182 motor as they’re all the same thing.

Order a 197 upper gasket set and a 172 lower gasket set. That’ll cover the bases.

But the issue you will come up against is the vvt. The system in the 197 works in a different way to the 172, so you’ll need a mappable ecu to run full constant vvt on the inlet cam. Quite how it’ll work without the full vvt, I don’t know so I can’t answer the question.

A lot more people run the 197 internals in a 172 motor. They get good results as well.

 

[sennaalbronda]

All torque settings are as per a standard 172/182 motor as they’re all the same thing.

Order a 197 upper gasket set and a 172 lower gasket set. That’ll cover the bases.

But the issue you will come up against is the vvt. The system in the 197 works in a different way to the 172, so you’ll need a mappable ecu to run full constant vvt on the inlet cam. Quite how it’ll work without the full vvt, I don’t know so I can’t answer the question.

A lot more people run the 197 internals in a 172 motor. They get good results as well.

The ecu bit is sorted as EFI is able to get it running on a standard ecu. And henk from fastchip aswell. I already have a full 182 top gasket set. What is different between the 2? I just order the additional 197 bits
Have you got a link to the torque settings bit?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-N950F met Tapatalk

 

[Chambers_RS]

So you using 1*2 block, ph1 large port head, 197 cams and pistons?

What about 197 crank and rods?

 

[NorthloopCup]

The ecu bit is sorted as EFI is able to get it running on a standard ecu. And henk from fastchip aswell. I already have a full 182 top gasket set. What is different between the 2? I just order the additional 197 bits
Have you got a link to the torque settings bit?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-N950F met Tapatalk

I misread that you’re not using the 182 head. You also don’t have the vvt issue was talking about above as you only have on/off to think about, so easy to map.

I wouldn’t run the ph1 big port head though as you want gas exhaust speed. Ph1 head has far too large ports, but everyone thinks it’s amazing.

I’ll see if I can find the torque settings, but failing that, google f4r 736/738 torque settings. That will bring up results I’m sure.

 

[sennaalbronda]

I misread that you’re not using the 182 head. You also don’t have the vvt issue was talking about above as you only have on/off to think about, so easy to map.

I wouldn’t run the ph1 big port head though as you want gas exhaust speed. Ph1 head has far too large ports, but everyone thinks it’s amazing.

I’ll see if I can find the torque settings, but failing that, google f4r 736/738 torque settings. That will bring up results I’m sure.

i have a 736 head aswell, so wont be an issue. not a 182 head though. kind of want it to be complete 738. but i'll have to live with that i guess.
which parts do i need to replace perse? i'm ordering ARP conrodbolts. do i need to replace the crankshaft bolts aswell? and which seals do i have to order for the 172 head? in order to fit the 197 parts?

 

[NorthloopCup]

i have a 736 head aswell, so wont be an issue. not a 182 head though. kind of want it to be complete 738. but i'll have to live with that i guess.
which parts do i need to replace perse? i'm ordering ARP conrodbolts. do i need to replace the crankshaft bolts aswell? and which seals do i have to order for the 172 head? in order to fit the 197 parts?

Well the 172 inlet is different to the 182, somyou need the 172 inlet with the 736. I’d replace all bearing shells and order standard thickness thrust washers. Main bearings bolts should be replaced as they’re a stretch bolt, but just measure the thread pitch and bolt length - then replace them with 12.9 cap head screws. They last and they’re stronger than the originals.
To fit 197 cams doesn’t require anything different to the 1*2 cams mate. Cam seals and caps are the same across all of them.

Head torque is: 20nm - then check them again at 20nm. Then it’s 100 degrees + another 100 degrees.

Main bearing bolts are: 20nm + 65 degrees with oil on the thread and under the bolt head. That’s for standard stretch bolts though. If you go with the screws, I’d say around 80Nm.

 

[sennaalbronda]

Well the 172 inlet is different to the 182, somyou need the 172 inlet with the 736. I’d replace all bearing shells and order standard thickness thrust washers. Main bearings bolts should be replaced as they’re a stretch bolt, but just measure the thread pitch and bolt length - then replace them with 12.9 cap head screws. They last and they’re stronger than the originals.
To fit 197 cams doesn’t require anything different to the 1*2 cams mate. Cam seals and caps are the same across all of them.

Head torque is: 20nm - then check them again at 20nm. Then it’s 100 degrees + another 100 degrees.

Main bearing bolts are: 20nm + 65 degrees with oil on the thread and under the bolt head. That’s for standard stretch bolts though. If you go with the screws, I’d say around 80Nm.

thanks! i'll get to ordering then. in case of parts im sorted. i'd say that of the 1x2 range i've got 99% of all original parts on stock, mainly because my dad owns a renault sport breakers shop. thanks very much for all the info. i'll order oem parts shortly as i should get a nice discount

 

[sennaalbronda]

Update:
Brought my 182 engine and 197 bits off to the machine shop. Its a good buddy of mine in germany and he told me he'd get the stuff installed at 150€ extra. Thats a great deal so he is assembling the bottom end.
Now i have been thinking about the 197 cams. But are they better then the shrick options for clio 1x2?
I mean i have both. And i dont really care about lumpy idle.
Are the shricks better for torque and power?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-N950F met Tapatalk

 

[green]

The shricks gave my ph1 engine an extra 16 bhp, torque was up to. Also use a gen90 ecu

 

[sennaalbronda]

The shricks gave my ph1 engine an extra 16 bhp, torque was up to. Also use a gen90 ecu

Do you have a printout anywhere and what are the supporting mods?
Nice oddessey btw!

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-N950F met Tapatalk

 

[green]

Thanks it’s taken a while to get the odyssey where it is now…still not finished!
That’s with throttle bodies and hi compression bottom end. Can’t remember the compression ratio off the top of my head. The cylinder head has three angled valves and stronger valve springs.
The shricks are quite lumpy and have a higher rpm tick over.