Clio v450 Project

[Sharkey172]

I did start another thread but was pointed into this direction on setting up a Project.

10 years ago I carried a 182 turbo build on here, made 330bhp. Sold it and forever since always been thinking about that power and the car in general.

I am returning to build another project car. This time something more special.

My plans are to build a BAM powered Clio running o2m box,
Mazda mx5 mk2 rear subframe and suspension setup to run 4 wheel drive.
Along with a v6 body kit rep.

The shell has been ordered this week along with ordering the bits for the Mazda mx5 rear setup and v6 body kit.

Hopefully get started on the project in the coming weeks, first plan is to strip down the rolling shell and check for rust patches , any common areas I would appreciate some info.
I will be repairing any rust, then cutting out the arches when the v6 body kit arrives.

Im on the hunt for Laguna mk2 Hub knuckles, I believe the v6 had the Laguna v6 hubs, very hard to find. So if anyone knows of anyone with these. Let me know!!

I plan on running fully forged engine, potentially g25 550 turbo external waste gate with meth.
But I think it the forge part will come at a very late date

my goal for now before I head off travelling in 2026 is to get the v6 body kit fitted, all rear end and bam engine in with custom Tunnel made.

when I return from travelling, the paint job will be carried out along with getting mapped etc.

I believe this could risk becoming a Q plate due to point system and VOSA Will need to give it a fully check over etc. so I think I may stick with standard engine setup etc for the Vosa check . (If it passes or when) I will then push a forged engine in.

Any info or help is greatly appreciated it!!

I will write a full spec setup that I want to achieve at a later date!!

 

[T3gav]

There's a S1600 shell for sale currently which would suit this on FB...

 

[Sharkey172]

There's a S1600 shell for sale currently which would suit this on FB...

Yeah I seen that yesterday, already ordered everything, plus I don’t like the s1600s , they look weird.

Remind me of a bad haircut at a barbers.

The wide body with the standard doors just don’t look right in my head haha.

I’m wanting to challenges myself anyway and I carry out fabrication work in my job so very excited with the tough project ahead

 

[Robbie Corbett]

Why does it need to go near VOSA?

 

[Cookson]

If using a BAM, why not go full Audi TT rear end and utilise the haldex too?

 

[Sharkey172]

If using a BAM, why not go full Audi TT rear end and utilise the haldex too?

I have already thought of that idea but the
mx5 rear end is a much easier fit and requires less work.

I have somebody that has tried The Audi tt rear frame and said it is much wider and in effect much more effort for reward.

Would have to run full custom rear arms , completely new boot floor which in effect would f**k the handling/geometry even more.

The Mazda mx5 rear subframe is very similar and also a very similar width to the clio.

 

[Sharkey172]

Why does it need to go near VOSA?

Becasue if I was to be pulled over and be inspected, my vehicle VIN is registered as a 2 wd, they see it’s a 4wd . Bang condemned.

So as I’ll be running a new engine different manafacturer parts , it’ll need a full check over.

In result it could be under a kit car, could be put onto a Q plate category dependent on the minimum points system after the build. I need to pop down to the Vosa centre to ask a load of questions regarding it

 

[Robbie Corbett]

Its a points system and its incredibly easy to 'fail'. Sounds like a world of pain that you could maybe just ignore if the car already has a reg 😂

Do VOSA pull people over and check how many wheel drive something is? I've only ever seen people willingly do a a VOSA inspection if their car needs to be registered.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

How do you go about sorting AWD using a BAM without the rear Haldex diff? Are you using some kind of custom centre diff? Or are you planning to run a Haldex diff somehow in an MX5 rear subframe?

The TT subframe looks fairly ok to mount tbh, not as simple as the MX5 granted but you are widening the car anyway? The MX5 rear diff and subframe isn't exactly renowned for handling big power reliably.

 

[Sharkey172]

Its a points system and its incredibly easy to 'fail'. Sounds like a world of pain that you could maybe just ignore if the car already has a reg 😂

Do VOSA pull people over and check how many wheel drive something is? I've only ever seen people willingly do a a VOSA inspection if their car needs to be registered.

It is something I’m bearing in mind, and trying to figure out.

Do I really want to go through Vosa? no…


The point system is based on what original parts you have not the actual inspection.

Then after would be an IVA test.

The point you made is fine, but if the police or anyone condemn a project that costs me (realistically £20k +) minimum)

It’s a huge risk to take. Im not 100% certain but I don’t like the thought of not telling anyone and potentially something bad happening.
( eg, a big crash and turn out it’s uninsured due to breaking the law driving a 4wd Kit car which is registered as a 2WD 😂)

 

[Sharkey172]

How do you go about sorting AWD using a BAM without the rear Haldex diff? Are you using some kind of custom centre diff? Or are you planning to run a Haldex diff somehow in an MX5 rear subframe?

The TT subframe looks fairly ok to mount tbh, not as simple as the MX5 granted but you are widening the car anyway? The MX5 rear diff and subframe isn't exactly renowned for handling big power reliably.

I will be using the Mazda mx5 rear LSD diff changing ratios to make it 50/50 (as they are for RWD as we know)

Mx5 diffs aren’t the failure, it’s actually the Alumium casing that usually sheers.

However, to take into consideration

1) you can make reinforcement plates and weld on to help with the casing

2) The power through the car will be AWD, so to take consideration that the load will be less of a RWD only.

3) if the diff was to struggle , there is resolutions on putting in updated Ford rear diffs onto the Mazda Frame.


I have got a doner Audi TT so will be checking both rear subframe etc to see for myself. But the Mazda mx5 rear suspension set up has been done by the guy I know.
Which is always good to go off knowing it has been done and has worked.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

It is something I’m bearing in mind, and trying to figure out.

Do I really want to go through Vosa? no…


The point system is based on what original parts you have not the actual inspection.

Then after would be an IVA test.

The point you made is fine, but if the police or anyone condemn a project that costs me (realistically £20k +) minimum)

It’s a huge risk to take. Im not 100% certain but I don’t like the thought of not telling anyone and potentially something bad happening.
( eg, a big crash and turn out it’s uninsured due to breaking the law driving a 4wd Kit car which is registered as a 2WD 😂)

Thats fair and 100% the right way to do it. What are the consequences of being caught out? Assume they don't immediately crush the car - rather send you for a VOSA inspection?

There are some threads about it on the net and from memory the consequences seem to be that with incorrect log book information you potentially invalidate your MOT and therefore insurance. Worth having a good read up on it before entering into discussions with vosa as they 100% will end up issuing a Q plate imo.

 

[Sharkey172]

Thats fair and 100% the right way to do it. What are the consequences of being caught out? Assume they don't immediately crush the car - rather send you for a VOSA inspection?

There are some threads about it on the net and from memory the consequences seem to be that with incorrect log book information you potentially invalidate your MOT and therefore insurance. Worth having a good read up on it before entering into discussions with vosa as they 100% will end up issuing a Q plate imo.

Yeah that’s what I don’t know c so I have plenty of research to do.

Think that’s why paying a visit to a vosa centre and chatting to them to ask any questions would be ideal,

Part of me in my head is thinking “ does it really matter if it’s a Q plate” aslong as I know the work carried is top notch. If I was to sell the vehicle it’ll be worth more in parts anyhow.

Think like you said, finding out it gets crushed immediately or anything.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

I will be using the Mazda mx5 rear LSD diff changing ratios to make it 50/50 (as they are for RWD as we know)

Mx5 diffs aren’t the failure, it’s actually the Alumium casing that usually sheers.

However, to take into consideration

1) you can make reinforcement plates and weld on to help with the casing

2) The power through the car will be AWD, so to take consideration that the load will be less of a RWD only.

3) if the diff was to struggle , there is resolutions on putting in updated Ford rear diffs onto the Mazda Frame.


I have got a doner Audi TT so will be checking both rear subframe etc to see for myself. But the Mazda mx5 rear suspension set up has been done by the guy I know.
Which is always good to go off knowing it has been done and has worked.

I am no expert but my casual understanding is that the output from the gearbox is direct drive (no centre diff), the centre diff (Haldex unit) is in the rear TT differential.

Basically you cannot, not have a transfer case with a diff in it as your front and rear wheels would be driven (locked) together which doesn't work on the road.

Maybe there is a variation of a VAG gearbox with a viscous coupling or something in the actual gearbox but from the little I know its all done in the rear.

 

[Sharkey172]

I am no expert but my casual understanding is that the output from the gearbox is direct drive (no centre diff), the centre diff (Haldex unit) is in the rear TT differential.

Basically you cannot, not have a transfer case with a diff in it as your front and rear wheels would be driven (locked) together which doesn't work on the road.

Maybe there is a variation of a VAG gearbox with a viscous coupling or something in the actual gearbox but from the little I know its all done in the rear.

The haldex unit works as a clutch for the rear drive, I’m not sure if you’re explaining it like it’s an off roader? But there is a difference in 4x4 and four wheel drive?

 

[Robbie Corbett]

The haldex unit works as a clutch for the rear drive, I’m not sure if you’re explaining it like it’s an off roader? But there is a difference in 4x4 and four wheel drive?

I could be very wrong in this but does the Halden unit not act as a centre diff (viscous coupling) as well as clutch to engage/disengage rear drive?

 

[Sharkey172]

I could be very wrong in this but does the Halden unit not act as a centre diff (viscous coupling) as well as clutch to engage/disengage rear drive?

The haldex unit is clutch operated based on slip.
The centre diff is in the gearbox I believe they have an extra housing to go to the diff. (Abit like a tractor PTO) I believe.

When carrying out a o2m conversion to a 2wd clio I believe there’s a blank plate for this. .

If I was to go ahead with the haldex unit , I’d either have to go with a me7.5 ecu so it can read the haldex unit or run a seperate ECU for it.

going with a Mazda mx5 rear end is I don’t need any of that. And ECU wise I will most likely go aftermarket .

 

[Sharkey172]

I maybe wrong though in 2nd guessing myself now lol

 

[Sharkey172]

 

[Robbie Corbett]

This is how I understood it. bevel box up front (transfer box), then the Haldex coupling permits slip (or not) of the rear wheels. So if you don't have a haldex coupling on the rear diff and just hook a diff straight up to the gearbox then its locked without a way to slip no?

Converting to 2wd they just blank off the take off from the bevel box. Im not sure you can do what you want to do with an MX5 diff to be completely honest and would be interested to see how your guy has done it using an MX5 diff in the past - unless he was building using a different gearbox or just RWD.

 

[Sharkey172]

Aslong as I can get a prop made to match up with o2m and mx5 diff I don’t see an issue? The gearing might be an issue as the rear wheels might try an over take the front , although I’m not 100% sure on the science on that.

However my mate explained because it’s being transferred into 50/50 drive.
The final drives will have to be changed. And maybe that answers my question above

 

[Sharkey172]

That next step I will be finding out what final drives will be required.

 

[Sharkey172]

Little update, the Car shell arrived today.

Plan is tomorrow strip it all inspect any rust that wasn’t visible on the check up.
Remove from subframe to take back to work to cut and weld for the fitment of the Bam engine when I get an Audi TT doner.

 

[Brigsy]

Following, sounds like a great project.

With the modifications required to the monocoque shell for 4wd, itll defo fall under iva territory if your wanting it 100% legal.

 

[Sharkey172]

Following, sounds like a great project.

With the modifications required to the monocoque shell for 4wd, itll defo fall under iva territory if your wanting it 100% legal.

Yeah you are correct. I believe it’s a minimum of 8 points and I think I will potentially fall just short of that.
I’m hoping with the rest SubfrMe that I don’t have to do to much and possibly put Renault badges on the uprights I maybe able to get away with it but highly doubt it 😂

They’ll be ways through It im sure just gotta speak to people find out best solutions

 

[Brigsy]

I believe for the points system to work the monocoque needs to be unmodified. This is off the .gov page.

Local lad near me has an Astra J estate turned into a 2 door van. It looks mega and something happened a year or 2 ago resulting it getting pulled in for a check and they put it on a Q reg. Q plate aint the end of the world though.

 

[Sharkey172]

So got to the unit a lil late today, but managed to drop the subframe out and ready to take back home and Cut and fabricate.

Took off the side skirts and front end , Sills at first glance the usual, Bent from years of jacking up. Tapping up around the rear part though got some holes . So will need to address that.
Hopefully when the v6 arches require cutting/extending it’s takes that area away anyway .

Job now is to cut the Front subframe, Weld back up to fit Bam engine in.

When I return to the unit the I will removing Fuel tank and all rear end and inspect for more rust.
Mazda mx5 rear end should be here the time I return to unit so hopefully have a jist. Of how it’s all gonna look and what is required

 

[Robbie Corbett]

Aslong as I can get a prop made to match up with o2m and mx5 diff I don’t see an issue? The gearing might be an issue as the rear wheels might try an over take the front , although I’m not 100% sure on the science on that.

However my mate explained because it’s being transferred into 50/50 drive.
The final drives will have to be changed. And maybe that answers my question above

Hmmmm.

 

[Sharkey172]

Got the Subframe upto work , cut out O/S part , to fabricate for the engine to fit, the subframe is galvanised so will be a pig to weld but we’ll get there. Mazda mx5 parts turned up last night too, being an idiot I forgot to order the rear hubs but the rest of stuff pretty much here! (Idiot)

Hopefully get the subframe welded up tomorrow, and start cutting The n/s to notch the subframe to fit the o2m box

Audi TT doner car should be ready to pick up in a couple weeks

 

[Matt Cup]

Can you upload full image of your pics rather than thumbnail? Will make your build thread a lot easier to read. Looking forward to how this turns out 👍

 

[Sharkey172]

Can you upload full image of your pics rather than thumbnail? Will make your build thread a lot easier to read. Looking forward to how this turns out 👍

View attachment 1697834

Haha sorry about that hopefully below a photos are better?

So busy week at work, Took a while to prep subframe, manage to get the base welded in and just tac’d the sides into place, will finish off the welds next week. Was a b*****d to weld being galvanised.

The NS Is cut out and should be ready to weld in a new plate to fit the gearbox and Driveshaft in.

But yeah we’re halfway there ended up using 3mm plate to add abit of solidarity.

 

[Sharkey172]

So got round to finishing most of the front subframe, god it’s a B***are to weld!!
But we got there. Ended up using 4mm plate on the NS as I cut out the whole NS Piece, doesn’t look great but it’ll do the job.
Will neaten up and powder coat sometime in the future before it’s finished.

I have no done abit of research on the rear end side of things. I’m 50/50 between the Torsten Mazda diff, speaking to a racing Mazda team, welding the rear diff and using a 1.5 KAAZ lsd diff. It should be good to use with my plans said they sit well at 350lbft so it maybe around its limit.

Or … I could put on a mustang rear diff and modify to fit onto the Mazda rear subframe, there diffs sitting around 300-£400 so it’s something I’m intrigued about.

 

[Sharkey172]

Audi TT doner car has turned up. £350 from a friend, bargain

Hopefully have this stripped in a couple weeks time. 👌👌

 

[Sharkey172]

Little update - stripped the TT to bare shell. Kept hold of the Rear subframe and axle, going to see what work would be required to fit instead of the Mazda rear end but will compare both.

I’m now head scratching with the front end, obviously the wider arches of v6 body kit are huge, so I’m wondering what to do to bring out the front track.

Options in my head are

1)Laguna mk2 hubs (what v6 uses)
2) Custom shafts (happening anyway)
3) PMS bump steer kit
4) Do I make my own extenders on the original wishone? I could go down the PMS extendable wishbones however they weld to the original subframe area which I have cut out so wouldn’t be able to weld it in for shafts to clear from gearbox end etc.
5) potentially have to weld in top plates from PMS if I require to change castor of upright.

I want to do everything possible to not use huge spacers.

 

[Sharkey172]

Clio is 90% stripped 😍.

Nearly getting to bare shell. Can’t wait to get measuring up and ideas on fabricating this stuff on z