Clio with Rotrex super charger

incy-spider · Jan 28, 2020

frayz said:
Personally I’d go low boost turbo. You know you’ll achieve your power/torque goals.
Just focus on the usual problem areas so things like effective turbocharger support, improved hardwearing for feeds and drains. Go OTT on heat management and cooling.
Turbo motors arrived very effective and reliable if built properly.
For the cost, it’s hard to ignore given the options.

High five!!

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green · Jan 28, 2020

I myself if doing an engine again I would like to go with the mk3 head and pistons in the Mk2 block. For the fact not many have done it

I know it’ll be a bit of work to put the two together..great gains thou as the mk3 head is far superior to the Mk2. How much is it to machine the Mk2 block? Mk3 pistons..cheap as chips, just need a decent head.

My engine now is 83mm Wossner pistons 12:8:1 high comp bottom, Schrick cams (similar to 421’s), ktec DTH ITB’s,one piece valves, catcam valve springs. That’s putting out 215.9bhp 174ftlb’s and cost at least 3.5 grand but it has been bullet proof for a good 6 years now.
obviously turbo is the cheapest way but turbo and heat! and so many breaking them once built would put me off.

@1985michael182 whats your engine putting out at the moment? I went from 200bhp to 215 with the cams and it’s very noticeable.

hope that helps.

frayz · Jan 28, 2020

Firstly, I know it’s apples and oranges. For that I apologise. But this was still well over double it’s intended power/torque.

But in support of my last response, I built my impreza motor properly which was fed with a GT35R running on Syvecs.
Didn’t get greedy and it was wound back to 576bhp and 520lbsft.
I ran this motor for 4 years and beat the life out of it, serviced it with regular oil changes of Motul 300V. In that 4 years the only thing that ever went wrong was a single coil pack died. That’s it.

So build a motor properly, address the common problem areas, don’t get greedy and then look after it, and I see no reason for it to let you down any more than any other vehicle.

1985michael182 · Jan 28, 2020

You have some serious money my friend! I bought the 2.1 striker kit for mine at just short of 5k. Couldnt afford the turbo and other mods to run it so had to sell up 😣
Back when I was a boy ricer

1985michael182 · Jan 28, 2020

green said:
I myself if doing an engine again I would like to go with the mk3 head and pistons in the Mk2 block. For the fact not many have done it I know it’ll be a bit of work to put the two together..great gains thou as the mk3 head is far superior to the Mk2. How much is it to machine the Mk2 block? Mk3 pistons..cheap as chips, just need a decent head.

My engine now is 83mm Wossner pistons 12:8:1 high comp bottom, Schrick cams (similar to 421’s), ktec DTH ITB’s,one piece valves, catcam valve springs. That’s putting out 215.9bhp 174ftlb’s and cost at least 3.5 grand but it has been bullet proof for a good 6 years now.
obviously turbo is the cheapest way but turbo and heat! and so many breaking them once built would put me off.

@1985michael182 whats your engine putting out at the moment? I went from 200bhp to 215 with the cams and it’s very noticeable.

hope that helps.

Currently running 197bhp and 170lbs.
Jenvey 48mm bodies
GroupN timing
182 mani
Meg225 injectors
I was running the wrong exhaust mani gasket when it was mapped at EFI, I would like to think with the unrestricted exhaust gases now I would hit the magical 200

1985michael182 · Jan 28, 2020

When you did the cams did you do the valves and springs too?

frayz · Jan 28, 2020

1985michael182 said:
You have some serious money my friend! I bought the 2.1 striker kit for mine at just short of 5k. Couldnt afford the turbo and other mods to run it so had to sell up 😣
Back when I was a boy ricer
View attachment 1451633

Lol, with respect I built that when I was living at home with no wife and only my c**k to keep. It’s easy to throw all your cash at a car when you’ve nothing else to spend it on.

However as I said, it’s apples and oranges.
But for a sensible budget you could do your Clio with a refresh, and focus on reliability and longevity.
The negatives as I see them are increased weight/complexity of the turbo system and the obvious dramatic change in characteristics of torque delivery.
However if you’re on low boost then all your low down response largely stays the same with no trade off.

However I fully understand the want to stay NA as it’s part of the Clios natural identity.
Perhaps work out the costs of doing the Mk3 head/pistons swap and see if it will actually deliver for you what you’re looking for. But to stay NA and get maybe another 10/15bhp seems a lot of effort for little return.

green · Jan 28, 2020

I all ready had them fitted as I was going to have cams fitted on the original engine but ran out of money for them as well. I’ve not had them in long. Put them in when the cam belt was done. Love them.

1985michael182 · Jan 28, 2020

Yea good point, I think it's a power to price ratio I need to look at aswell

Usr117063 · Jan 28, 2020

Quaife sequential

1985michael182 · Jan 28, 2020

Haha I've not won the lottery

Usr117063 · Jan 28, 2020

Yet

1985michael182 · Jan 28, 2020

green said:
I all ready had them fitted as I was going to have cams fitted on the original engine but ran out of money for them as well. I’ve not had them in long. Put them in when the cam belt was done. Love them.

So you had 215 prior to pistons?

green · Jan 29, 2020

No I already had the bottom end rebuilt with the pistons and itb’s which was 202.5 on original injectors .

It’s now got the cams with mk3 injectors. If the Clio didn’t need the cam belt change I would’ve left it as it was but it was almost a free mod when doing cam belt. Mapping wasn’t much more.

1985michael182 · Jan 29, 2020

And then the cams jumped you 13bhp more

green · Jan 29, 2020

Yes just 13bhp but the engine feels so much stronger now.

1985michael182 · Jan 29, 2020

13bhp from 1 mod on these is bloody good, I wasnt cribbing you m8.

1985michael182 · Jan 29, 2020

So your pistons have been in 4 years? How many miles do you think you have covered? And are they the type that need servicing every so often?
I know alot of the race engines need rebuilding/servicing every year using forged internals.

green · Jan 29, 2020

I’ve probably done at least 20000 miles in 4 years. 2 or 3 trackdays a year and it has been perfect apart from an injector failing so it was a really easy fix with the itb’s. The cam belt I’ve just had done was the first time anything else has happened to the engine. In my eyes it was well worth the money spent. If I get another 5 years out of it I’ll be well happy.
what I will say is don’t scrimp on parts. Get the best and hope for a decent engine builder. Mine was done by ktec 🙊

green · Jan 29, 2020

Pretty sure the piston are fit and forget till it goes pop lol

scullyg40 · Jan 29, 2020

@green What do you reckon what the output would be with your setup and a 197 head?

1985michael182 · Jan 29, 2020

Mark had 230 180 with the 197 head, pistons and cam.

green · Jan 29, 2020

This ^^^^^

Pistachio · Jan 29, 2020

1985michael182 said:
Mark had 230 180 with the 197 head, pistons and cam.

That's impressive! I wonder what the total cost would be from stock to that

1985michael182 · Jan 29, 2020

By that I mean proper pistons and cams. Not the 197 ones

1985michael182 · Jan 29, 2020

Ask the man himself

@NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup · Jan 29, 2020

1985michael182 said:
Ask the man himself

@NorthloopCup

Too much, but I built it for myself as I fancied the challenge. I also wanted something different from the run of the mill itbs/421’s combo.

There was a lot or research and development that went into the project as well to make the build reliable.

1985michael182 · Jan 29, 2020

If you had to put a price on it to build for some1?

NorthloopCup · Jan 29, 2020

1985michael182 said:
If you had to put a price on it to build for some1?

Well I could build one for less than mine cost now I imagine, but including all my time and using genuine R3 maxi stuff, I’d say £6-£7k. That’s a figure completely pulled off the top of my head though.

1985michael182 · Jan 29, 2020

🤯💩

1985michael182 · Jan 29, 2020

Looks like its turbo conversion then ! 😂😂

scullyg40 · Jan 29, 2020

1985michael182 said:
Mark had 230 180 with the 197 head, pistons and cam.

How would a 197 head conversion compare to a flowed/ported (ph1 (I believe the ph1 has bigger ports?)) head?

NorthloopCup · Jan 29, 2020

scullyg40 said:
How would a 197 head conversion compare to a flowed/ported (ph1 (I believe the ph1 has bigger ports?)) head?

Ports are in the wrong position, they’re too big and the combustion chamber design is crap. But you need to change pistons in a mk3 head conversion.

scullyg40 · Jan 30, 2020

NorthloopCup said:
Ports are in the wrong position, they’re too big and the combustion chamber design is crap. But you need to change pistons in a mk3 head conversion.

I understand, but when @green manages to get 215 bhp and you have build a high spec 197/182 hybrid with 230 bhp, it seems that a bit of optimisation on the standard head might be more reasonable? What's your thought?

NorthloopCup · Jan 30, 2020

scullyg40 said:
I understand, but when @green manages to get 215 bhp and you have build a high spec 197/182 hybrid with 230 bhp, it seems that a bit of optimisation on the standard head might be more reasonable? What's your thought?

I did 230 on essentially a standard mk3 head and inlet manifold, so not really anlike for like comparison. It also ran the oe fbw throttle body. @green has itbs. If I’d had the mk3 head flowed fully and gone all out, I’d be on for 270+ n/a. The only way a mk2 head will flow enough air for that hp is with boost.

I’m building a very high spec mk2 motor atm with a fully worked head, so we will see where we get to in terms of hp.

green · Jan 30, 2020

My head hasn’t really been touched apart from a skim, valves and springs and it’s a ph1 head. If I had the money I’d love to go with the MK3 head have it gas flowed and wild cammed. Then hopefully the engine will be finally finished after 10 years lol. That’s after I get the sach dampers refurbed for the trophy’s £600...holidays to keep the wife happy ££££££££ then maybe the head lol

1985michael182 · Feb 1, 2020

Guys, if I get rid of my gen90 to fit a standard ECU. Can I just buy a second hand one and plug it straight in or would I need the uch n all that shite?

incy-spider · Feb 1, 2020

1985michael182 said:
Guys, if I get rid of my gen90 to fit a standard ECU. Can I just buy a second hand one and plug it straight in or would I need the uch n all that shite?

Couple options, get a standard ECU virginised. Or get the UCH, Keys and ECU

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incy-spider · Feb 1, 2020

EFI Parts – Race engine management, parts & tuning

www.efi-parts.co.uk

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scullyg40 · Feb 1, 2020

EFI can delete your immobiliser. But why do you want to go back to standard?

Clio with Rotrex super charger

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