components?

[AlexG]

right well ive worked out that i need components for the front of my car. can anyone reccomend any good sets that are easy to fit. its a mk2 ph1. will i have to take the dash off to change the tweeters? im thinking yes
i will just be running them of my sony headunit and not an amp.

 

[wallop]

the only time you should replace stock speakers for higher spec items is if you intend to amp them....if your not intending to amp them then you will achieve very little,(in some cases its actually a step backwards).....

your Sony is probably peaking at around 80% volume, which would equate to around 12 to 14watts rms per channel, this output rapidly decreases as more load is placed on the headunits amp, (by either turning it up or asking it to reproduce the lower frequencies associated with mid bass), as the load increases the unit will struggle to maintain voltage, as voltage drop becomes an issue then so will clipping, (heard as distortion), its this clipping that will cause premature failure of the speakers.....

for best results you need to decide exactly what you intend to do, then purchase items that will yield the best results.....

in general if using a headunit to drive speakers, you should be looking for highly sensitive units that will play down to around 50hz, (input wattage in either rms or peak doesn't really affect the results).....

starting to ramble on now, enough said i think

 

[AlexG]

cheers for the info ill keep looking

 

[Renshaw]

mine in the for sale section
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=333738

Renshaw

 

[wallop]

specs on those Alpines suggest they would be OK off headunit power, but i personally would amp those particular ones....

i would look for a set that are 90+dB at W/M

 

[AlexG]

sorry mate whats w/m?

 

[AlexG]

wallop you seem like the man in the know!
can you reccomend a make for components alpine pioneer? for anything up to £70

 

[Dan R]

the only time you should replace stock speakers for higher spec items is if you intend to amp them....if your not intending to amp them then you will achieve very little,(in some cases its actually a step backwards).....

your Sony is probably peaking at around 80% volume, which would equate to around 12 to 14watts rms per channel, this output rapidly decreases as more load is placed on the headunits amp, (by either turning it up or asking it to reproduce the lower frequencies associated with mid bass), as the load increases the unit will struggle to maintain voltage, as voltage drop becomes an issue then so will clipping, (heard as distortion), its this clipping that will cause premature failure of the speakers.....

for best results you need to decide exactly what you intend to do, then purchase items that will yield the best results.....

in general if using a headunit to drive speakers, you should be looking for highly sensitive units that will play down to around 50hz, (input wattage in either rms or peak doesn't really affect the results).....

starting to ramble on now, enough said i think

Rubbish. Changing the speakers will make a big difference. It may not be louder and you may not get more bass but tonally the system will sound miles better. Yes amping them is better and will get considerably more out of the speakers but by just changing them to something reasonable will make the system much much nicer to listen to.

 

[wallop]

Rubbish. Changing the speakers will make a big difference. It may not be louder and you may not get more bass but tonally the system will sound miles better. Yes amping them is better and will get considerably more out of the speakers but by just changing them to something reasonable will make the system much much nicer to listen to.

did you actually read my initial post??

the only time you should replace stock speakers for higher spec items is if you intend to amp them....if your not intending to amp them then you will achieve very little,(in some cases its actually a step backwards).....

a speaker simply reproduces sound based on a signal it recieves, if this signal is 'clean' the reproduced sound will be 'clean'....fitting upgraded speakers with higher power handling would imply a heavier suspension, this coupled with lower sensitivity, would lead to lower output watt for watt in comparison to stock items......

so for similar results, leave the stock speakers in, but turn it down slightly......

your Sony is probably peaking at around 80% volume, which would equate to around 12 to 14watts rms per channel, this output rapidly decreases as more load is placed on the headunits amp, (by either turning it up or asking it to reproduce the lower frequencies associated with mid bass), as the load increases the unit will struggle to maintain voltage, as voltage drop becomes an issue then so will clipping, (heard as distortion), its this clipping that will cause premature failure of the speakers.....

so, if your fitting upgraded speakers, by limiting the lower frequencies, or rather high passing them, you will gain cleaner output, oh hang on, the same is true for stock speakers, only due to higher sensitivity and lighter suspension the stock speakers will play a wider frequency range.....

for best results you need to decide exactly what you intend to do, then purchase items that will yield the best results.....

imo, good advice....

in general if using a headunit to drive speakers, you should be looking for highly sensitive units that will play down to around 50hz, (input wattage in either rms or peak doesn't really affect the results).....

so, can't really elaborate much more on ^^this statement, other than high sensitivity would indicate a fairly light suspension.....

with regards recommending a particular make; sorry but its each to their own, i would recommend you pop down local Halfords and have a listen to what they have on display, (they invariably have the largest demo boards)...

if it were my car, and they were to be run short term off the headunit, then off an external amp, i would probably opt for THESE but don't tell anyone

 

[AlexG]

thanks its good to get peoples different opinions so thanks for replying

a question ive got is my standard renault speakers are the blaupunkt ones which are quite decent compared to other standard speakers ive heard but the problem is when they are played loud there is distortion. is this because the headunit is producing a higher output than the speakers can handle? or isit "clipping" and if so which spec on the new speakers will i have to look at to avoid this. thanks for your help

 

[wallop]

ok, this is a common problem area that seems to catch quite a few people out, (caught me out around 20 years ago when i was first tinkering with car audio).....

the distortion your talking about is down to the headunit....

as stated previously a speaker merely reproduces sound in accordance with the signal it recieves, if this signal is 'clean', then the sound will be 'clean'....

car manufacturers have recently discovered that nice sounding audio systems are a good selling point, so more and more are fitting half decent speakers and some are even amped seperately, (Bose systems for example),....

lets look at your Sony unit;

its probably fused at 10amps, this 10amps is basically shared between;

cd laser
disc motor
cd laser carriage
unit illumination
flashy graphic display panel
internal amplifier
plus any aux units like cd changers or I-pods

as you can imagine, the power available to the internal amp is fairly limited, the higher you turn it up, the more likely voltage drop will occur within the headunit and esp the internal amp....(you will see this as a dimming display panel)....

some headunits will go full volume with no clipping through either the pre-outs or internal amp, but most won't get anywhere near....

my opinion of the later Sony units has dropped dramatically over the last few years, i was once a devout Sony user, but now i wouldn't use one if it were free....imo they are currently one of the worst sounding units available....

my advice to you would be;

1, sell on the Sony...
2, sound deaden your doors
3, buy either Clarion, Alpine, Pioneer or JVC, (again visit halfords and try out all the headunits they have on show that are in your price range, then buy online)...
4, hard wire new headunit direct from the battery using 10AWG cable fused at 20amps,(stick with original ign live), and earth headunit direct to chassis, again using 10AWG cable,(this will limit voltage drop).....
5, don't expect too much from your stereo....

a few interesting facts which may help you understand why your having problems...

1, an amplifiers output is measured playing a 0dB sine wave at a specific voltage,(either 12V or 14.4V), into a given impedence....
2, music can't be recorded at 0dB, its impossible....
3, as a speaker plays, heat is produced, as heat is produced impedence increases, efficiency also suffers....
4, volume or output scale is logarythmic, so 10watts isn't twice as loud as 5watts....half volume on your headunit isn't half power, majority of power will be in the top third....

so, just what is the approx output of your Sony when playing music???

say it's 4x 50watts max,
so actual power say 4x 14watts rms whilst playing a 0dB sine wave at 14.4V

actual continuous rms power whilst playing music at full tilt, probably around 7watts rms,(this figure will also be affected by impedence rise), so i doubt your 'over powering' your stock speakers...

 

[wallop]

here's a LINKY to a thread on 'TA' regarding a friends setup problems in his car, all sorted now he has a new Pioneer unit....

 

[wallop]

sorry mate whats w/m?

sorry, didn't see this till now

it's 1watt input power measured at 1 metre = --dB volume (basically an industry standard for measuring speaker sensitivity)...

hope that helps...

 

[AlexG]

cheers for all your help i have learnt a lot!