Correct amplifier

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

I have 2 12" JBLs 1200watt each 300 rms

I only want to run them from the one amp!

So does it have to be at least 600rms is this how it works?
I prefrably want a JBL amp but not too fussed.

Any opinions?

Thanks
James

 

[White16valver]

You could either get a 1-channel (monoblock I think it's called?) amp of 600wrms and then wire the two subs into the one output, but you'll need to be aware of what Ohms your subs are as you may kill the amp.

What are the subs - single voice coil? Double voice coil? and are the coils 2 Ohm? 4 Ohm?

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

i have absolutly no idea, is it safest to get a big amp

 

[kpowell911]

What subs are they? GTO-1202D's? IF so they are dual 2 ohm, So to run 2you will need an amp around 600wrms @ 2ohm.

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

What subs are they? GTO-1202D's? IF so they are dual 2 ohm, So to run 2you will need an amp around 600wrms @ 2ohm.

My two 12" subs are JBLs GTO-1202D and the plan is to run them on the one sub.

So in that case yes they are dual 2 ohm.

Is 600wrms the "minimum" i need and what do you mean "@ 2ohm"

???

 

[kpowell911]

By one sub I take it you mean 1 amp?

They are dual 2 ohm, so Can be wired to show a 2 ohm final load (Whe n2 are conencted)

Ohms is a law for measuring resistance, Basically your amp specifications will state what RMS (Wattage) the amp puts out at the various levels of impedence.

For this case you want a Amp that puts out around 600wrms @ 2 ohm.

For example, look at this amp (DO NOT BUY THIS AMP, IT will be too powerful, IT just happened to be one i was looking at before i read this thread)

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/dynamics-s1200d-p-5535.html

See it says :

RMS Power 4 Ohm: 1 x 450W
RMS Power 2 Ohm: 1 x 800W
RMS Power 1 Ohm: 1 x 1200W

That amp will put out 800wrms when show a 2 ohm load.

I am showing a 1 ohm load to mine, so thats getting 1200wrms.

You need an amp that will put out around 600wrms (Less rather than more) @ 2 0hms. So just look @ amps online, Find one in your budget and read the specifaction. I dont mnd looking for one for you, But it will be good practice for you. IF you are stuck give me a shout.

I started with less knowledge than you a few years ago BTW

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

By one sub I take it you mean 1 amp?

They are dual 2 ohm, so Can be wired to show a 2 ohm final load (Whe n2 are conencted)

Ohms is a law for measuring resistance, Basically your amp specifications will state what RMS (Wattage) the amp puts out at the various levels of impedence.

For this case you want a Amp that puts out around 600wrms @ 2 ohm.

For example, look at this amp (DO NOT BUY THIS AMP, IT will be too powerful, IT just happened to be one i was looking at before i read this thread)

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/dynamics-s1200d-p-5535.html

See it says :

RMS Power 4 Ohm: 1 x 450W
RMS Power 2 Ohm: 1 x 800W
RMS Power 1 Ohm: 1 x 1200W

That amp will put out 800wrms when show a 2 ohm load.

I am showing a 1 ohm load to mine, so thats getting 1200wrms.

You need an amp that will put out around 600wrms (Less rather than more) @ 2 0hms. So just look @ amps online, Find one in your budget and read the specifaction. I dont mnd looking for one for you, But it will be good practice for you. IF you are stuck give me a shout.

I started with less knowledge than you a few years ago BTW

Firstly yeh i did mean amp and not sub, second thanks for the help fella, i actually understand how the ohm works now, and its quite interesting to learn "to get smaller rather than bigger"

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

Its still a wee bit confusing, As i have 2 subs...

So do i simple need to buy an amplifier that has 600wrms @ 2ohm

and it doesn't matter what "wattage" it is?

 

[kpowell911]

Of course it matters what wattage you get, Too much and you will blow your subs, Not enough and you wont be happy.

The wattage is shown in WRMS, Which is Watts Route Mean Square. Its a proper way of measuring actual power, AS regards to sayings I have 10,000 watt stereo.

However, IF i was you, I'd just buy this:

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/2955.html

Its cheap, A good amp, And will put 580wrms (290wrms to each sub) When wired to show a 2 ohm load. That Figure is at 14.4v however, So id say the actual WRMS figure on a Clio with battery and charging system is closer to 500wrms.

Either way, ITs a good set up that is tried and tested.

Not saying this is the only amp that will work in your application, buts a very good contender.

Was quite interesting, Back in my chav days, I pulled into a McDonalds, Blasting my music, And there was a group of People with their systems blasting, And I was clearly louder than them.

I parked up and got out and a few came over to me asking why my stereo was so much louder, They had 2 Xplod 12" subs with 1400w writte on them in big letters, I had a M1001, Putting out 1000wrms to 2 Alpine Type X's at the time, And They wouldnt have it that I only had 1000w and they had 2800w and mine was louder lol.

 

[kpowell911]

By one sub I take it you mean 1 amp?

They are dual 2 ohm, so Can be wired to show a 2 ohm final load (Whe n2 are conencted)

Ohms is a law for measuring resistance, Basically your amp specifications will state what RMS (Wattage) the amp puts out at the various levels of impedence.

For this case you want a Amp that puts out around 600wrms @ 2 ohm.

For example, look at this amp (DO NOT BUY THIS AMP, IT will be too powerful, IT just happened to be one i was looking at before i read this thread)

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/dynamics-s1200d-p-5535.html

See it says :

RMS Power 4 Ohm: 1 x 450W
RMS Power 2 Ohm: 1 x 800W
RMS Power 1 Ohm: 1 x 1200W

That amp will put out 800wrms when show a 2 ohm load.

I am showing a 1 ohm load to mine, so thats getting 1200wrms.

You need an amp that will put out around 600wrms (Less rather than more) @ 2 0hms. So just look @ amps online, Find one in your budget and read the specifaction. I dont mnd looking for one for you, But it will be good practice for you. IF you are stuck give me a shout.

I started with less knowledge than you a few years ago BTW

Firstly yeh i did mean amp and not sub, second thanks for the help fella, i actually understand how the ohm works now, and its quite interesting to learn "to get smaller rather than bigger"

All i am interested in here is making sure you dont break stuff, You appear to be quite new, And I would hate for you to blow something up so soon after buying it, So I suggested an amp with a lower power output, So even if you were silly with the gains, You wouldnt do much harm.

I've ran Subs intended for 300wrms at 1000wrms no problems, But that was with some delicate gain settings, And the help of an expert (I am by no means an expert)

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

Well you seem to know what you talking about! lol
Thanks for all the help your giving me as im really starting to understand how they work.

But how come you would choose the mono bloack amp over the 2 channel?

Is there a for and against on that

Cherrs fella

 

[badass06]

That amp would work
http://www.crutchfield.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_dual.html

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

That amp would work

as in the amp that crazyclio suggested.

 

[kpowell911]

That amp would work
http://www.crutchfield.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_dual.html

http://www.crutchfield.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_dual.html ?

Thats what you are attempting to link too.

 

[theduck]

too much power doesnt blow speakers, too little power does.

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

too much power doesnt blow speakers, too little power does.

Seems abit of a risky business this does.

I think the best to do is to get an amplifier that is as close to 600rms as possible. Im still slightly unsure wether to go for the mono or the 2 channel,i would of personally gone for the 2 channel as it seems a little silly trying to wire two wires up to the same thing.

 

[kpowell911]

too much power doesnt blow speakers, too little power does.

That is true, But are you suggesting a newbie puts 1000wrms to a 300wrms rated sub?

 

[kpowell911]

too much power doesnt blow speakers, too little power does.

Seems abit of a risky business this does.

I think the best to do is to get an amplifier that is as close to 600rms as possible. Im still slightly unsure wether to go for the mono or the 2 channel,i would of personally gone for the 2 channel as it seems a little silly trying to wire two wires up to the same thing.

You will struggle to find an amp that puts our 300wrmsx2 @ 4 ohm for your budget.

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

Im guessing by now you beging to think im abit stupid lol.

If i have two subs both 1200watts each and each sub has 300wrms then i need an amp that provides 600wrms.

That bit i understand. So now i have 2 choices,
I either get a mono block amp ( 1ohm )
Or i get a 2 channel amp ( 2ohm )

Then i get confused....

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

This is EXACTLY what i have, without the amp...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JBL-GTO1202D-...eZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

So wouldn't i need an amp of 2400watts
Thats what i always use to think.

 

[theduck]

no. the most they can handle is 2400 watts. all that means is that if you put nmore than 2400watts through them they will hit the end stops. This means you cant turn the amp all the way up, which you dont want to do anyway as the amplifier will be well outside of its optimum range by this point.

 

[kpowell911]

This is EXACTLY what i have, without the amp...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JBL-GTO1202D-...eZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

So wouldn't i need an amp of 2400watts
Thats what i always use to think.

You are quoting MAX power ratrings, Your sub is 300wrms, not 1200wrms.

Its best to ignore the big power ratings, And only look at rms figures.

 

[kpowell911]

Im guessing by now you beging to think im abit stupid lol.

If i have two subs both 1200watts each and each sub has 300wrms then i need an amp that provides 600wrms.

That bit i understand. So now i have 2 choices,
I either get a mono block amp ( 1ohm )
Or i get a 2 channel amp ( 2ohm )

Then i get confused....

No. lol.

The sub doesnt "have" 300wrms, It is RATED at 300wrms. The sub has nothing, Its the amp that sends the power to it.

Each one of your subs is Dual 2 ohm. These can be wired i nvarious formations to provide different final ohm loads.

IF you have ONE JBL sub, Which is dual 2ohm this can be wired to show a 1 ohm or 4 ohm load.

If you have 2 of the same sub, Which are dual 2 ohm, These can be wired to show a 2 ohm load, So you will need an amp that puts out about 600wrms @ 2 ohm.

Most Multi channel amps are only 4 ohm stable, So you will need a multi channel that puts out 300wrmsx2 @ 4 ohm, And run one sub off one channel, and another sub of a second channel, Then make sure you set each channel up EXACTLY the same. This is going to be pricey, and off the top of my head I cannot think of any amps that put this out, They do exist, But cant think of any.

The way i look it, I have my Class A Multi channels for me componants, My Class D Monoblocks for Subs. IMO Class D Amplified subs sound better than Class A ones, And Cost less in the long run. I've ran as many as 4 Subs off one channel monoblocks no problems.

If you listen to one thing in this post listen to this:

Buy this:
http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/2955.html

 

[kpowell911]

Oh hear you go, Found an amp 2x300wrms @ 4ohm

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/dynamics-s6002-p-5532.html

Great Amp, I run Its smaller sister for my comps and its bigger brother To power my subs

As you can see, Alot more than the JBL one, And IMO wouldnt be as good for your application.

 

[kpowell911]

Few more:

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/2872.html

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/2998.html

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/5850.html

As you can see, Quite expensive

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

JBL it is then! Thanks for all your help fella, i will PM you whan i buy THAT amp! and tell you how im getting on.

 

[Dan R]

Im sorry CRAZY CLIO but you know almost nothing about car audio. Ive read everthing you have said and most of it is what youve heard from mates im guessing. If you dont know the facts then please dont give people info thats not right. To a certain point, the more power you give a speaker the better it will sound. END OF. The wattage figures that have been given mean almost nothing at all.

 

[Dan R]

Of course it matters what wattage you get, Too much and you will blow your subs, Not enough and you wont be happy.

The wattage is shown in WRMS, Which is Watts Route Mean Square. Its a proper way of measuring actual power, AS regards to sayings I have 10,000 watt stereo.

However, IF i was you, I'd just buy this:

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/2955.html

Its cheap, A good amp, And will put 580wrms (290wrms to each sub) When wired to show a 2 ohm load. That Figure is at 14.4v however, So id say the actual WRMS figure on a Clio with battery and charging system is closer to 500wrms.

Either way, ITs a good set up that is tried and tested.

Not saying this is the only amp that will work in your application, buts a very good contender.

Was quite interesting, Back in my chav days, I pulled into a McDonalds, Blasting my music, And there was a group of People with their systems blasting, And I was clearly louder than them.

I parked up and got out and a few came over to me asking why my stereo was so much louder, They had 2 Xplod 12" subs with 1400w writte on them in big letters, I had a M1001, Putting out 1000wrms to 2 Alpine Type X's at the time, And They wouldnt have it that I only had 1000w and they had 2800w and mine was louder lol.

Utter utter rubbish. If an amp is rated at 580 watts rms runnin at 14.4v then at 12 volts is is more likely to be producing at most 300 watts. You really have no idea at all. All the above is just complete bulls**t. You need to go on a course and learn about all this mate!

 

[White16valver]

He seemed to make sense to me?

And where did he specify 12v? All batteries and systems run different voltages, you just have to see what yours does to work out exact output.

And, as he says, it's a good set up, *regardless* of its precise output.

 

[Dan R]

He doesnt specify but thats what a car battery runs at or there abouts when the car is running and the hifi is on. NOT 14.4v. Ive been on loads of training courses mate with some of the best car audio manufacturers there are such as focal, JL AUDIO, GENESIS ETC ETC. There a bit more up on the knowlege and the sciences behind audio and sound. JL audios school of sound is highly regarded as one of the best adio courses there are!!

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

He doesnt specify but thats what a car battery runs at or there abouts when the car is running and the hifi is on. NOT 14.4v. Ive been on loads of training courses mate with some of the best car audio manufacturers there are such as focal, JL AUDIO, GENESIS ETC ETC. There a bit more up on the knowlege and the sciences behind audio and sound. JL audios school of sound is highly regarded as one of the best adio courses there are!!

Well without giving me the complete run down do you thing the JBL he showed me isnt the one too buy?

If not what would you reccomend

 

[Tigger]

He doesnt specify but thats what a car battery runs at or there abouts when the car is running and the hifi is on. NOT 14.4v. Ive been on loads of training courses mate with some of the best car audio manufacturers there are such as focal, JL AUDIO, GENESIS ETC ETC. There a bit more up on the knowlege and the sciences behind audio and sound. JL audios school of sound is highly regarded as one of the best adio courses there are!!

I want to do this!

How, where, how much?

 

[Dan R]

Im sorry to say this but JBLs amps pretty poor to be honest. The power output of the amplifier is only half the battle. What makes an amplifier good is the components that are used inside and the powersupplys they have in them. The wattage figures they have stamped on them are pretty much irrelevant. The figures they print in the brochures etc are produced by using what they call simply a test disc. This disc DOES NOT!!!! have music on it. It has various test tones on it which are basically different frequencies of sound. What the manufacturer will do is find the frequency at which the amplifier will produce the most output figure. This does not however respresent what power the amp will produce when wired up to a car battery and playing real music through. There is also the quality of the amp which is far far more important but that is too difficult and long winded to write on here. The biggest problem is trying to get people to understand distortion and why it happens. Most people think that a speaker distorts due to too much power but is actually totally wrong! The reason it distorts is down to lack of power. Believe it or not its up to you but its TRUE!! The more power you give a speaker the more control the speaker will have and the better it will sound. Yes you can give a speaker too much power but you wouldnt believe just how much power will actually take before its blows from too much power. This is just a small insight into the sciences behind car audio. Hope it helps

 

[Dan R]

We have an open evening at our car audio shop( CAR HIFI CENTRE OF CHELTENHAM) on wed nite where we have the JL guy giving a talk on car audio and we also have their mini demo car here that has been shipped over from the states to demo to customers. It has had 100k dollars spent on it. It pretty damn awesome!!!! Do a search for JL AUDIO MINI and im sure youll find pics of it.If you go on JL audios website and click on gallery you can see a slide show of the car http://mobile.jlaudio.com/gallery_pages.php?page_id=132#

 

[Dan R]

He doesnt specify but thats what a car battery runs at or there abouts when the car is running and the hifi is on. NOT 14.4v. Ive been on loads of training courses mate with some of the best car audio manufacturers there are such as focal, JL AUDIO, GENESIS ETC ETC. There a bit more up on the knowlege and the sciences behind audio and sound. JL audios school of sound is highly regarded as one of the best audio courses there are!!

 

[kpowell911]

First of All Dan R, I will start by saying well done for going on all your courses, And passes all these exams. I have not gone on any courses regarding this, I haven;t said I have. I haven't said I am the be all and end all of Car Audio. I do not work in the market, I am a trainee Bakery Manager for a supermarket. Whilst what I have said may not be what you guys have been taught at "school". IF i wanted advise on building a £100,000 Car audio system, I would come to you, But Already sensing your JL Bias, JL Audio are a damn expensive brand, So are focal, So are Genesis, Not everyone can afford/wants to "waste" that sort of money. Most peoples total budget for their WHOLE system is the cost of a JL 1000/1 . These people aren't interested in exact scientifics, Or exact RMS read outs. They want flashing lights and big numbers on their subs. FACT. There are people out there, Who take it very seriously, And want to know the exact science of what is happening.

However,

I have recomended to J.A.M.E.S. that for his subs he gets a JBL GTO-601.1 amplifier to power his 1202D's, When his subs are wired to show a final load of 2 ohms.

Am I correct? IS this a good set up for his budget? Now I obviously dont know as much as someone who has been to an "audio school" like you, But i dont think he will get a better set up for his money.

All the best with your new car audio shop btw.

When you own a shop, You will realise that your bread and butter will be the cheaper lower brands Such as a JBL, To write them off as poor is shooting yourself in the foot. Budget gear will be integral to your survival, So i suggest laying the science down for a minute, And concerntrating on speccing up on some of the lower end goods.

Not enough power does more damage than too much I agree, But if you are going round telling all your customers (who lets be honest 99% of your customers will be interested in buying an Xplod Sub and a Power cap, And little or no previous experience with installation, Or setting up experience) To stick mega watts up Cheap budget subwoofers, By applying the principal you learnt at "school" (More power doesnt kill subwoofers) your returns department is going to be busier than your sales department.

Again, I will say You are far more knowledgeable than me, And I look forward to your reply to what amplifier you would suggest.