Black S2 106 Rallye LHD
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Could Blue Ray be the next Betamax....
- Thread starter domtheone
- Start date
R26
Exactly, I remember the days when people use to slate PS3s for being so expensive!
182FF c/w Recaros
Cool
Shirley if peeps are buying a good DVD player (upscaling and all that) they can buy a Tosh HD-DVD player for as good (if not cheaper) a price which upscales pretty well, and plays HD-DVD's which blow upscaling out of the water (on a big enough tv).
Maybe there's more margin in high end DVD players
Well some good and bad points for both formats I think...however at the moment I think it is just the consumers who are losing as we are being given a choice of two formats and don't know which one to go for yet - and thats assuming both don't fail which may be the case.
I think the cost of the players will determine what is the winner though, as people have said DVDs didn't really take off until there were affordable players around. At the end of the day, probably about 75% of peope just "keep up" with technology, e.g. they buy the technology they have to in order to keep listening to music/ watch films. Ultra high end TVs and media players don't matter so much to them, and lets face it most TVs/media players/hifis etc are at least adequate these days. If a consumer walks into a shop, sees BR and HD players on demo (which look about equal IMO) but the HD player is a lot cheaper, then they will just go for that one.
As for the PS3's BR player, it is actually considered rather good and better than a lot of dedicated G1 BR players. I actually think the PS3 is well priced with this included, the question is do you need a BR player at the moment? I don't think you do.
I think the cost of the players will determine what is the winner though, as people have said DVDs didn't really take off until there were affordable players around. At the end of the day, probably about 75% of peope just "keep up" with technology, e.g. they buy the technology they have to in order to keep listening to music/ watch films. Ultra high end TVs and media players don't matter so much to them, and lets face it most TVs/media players/hifis etc are at least adequate these days. If a consumer walks into a shop, sees BR and HD players on demo (which look about equal IMO) but the HD player is a lot cheaper, then they will just go for that one.
As for the PS3's BR player, it is actually considered rather good and better than a lot of dedicated G1 BR players. I actually think the PS3 is well priced with this included, the question is do you need a BR player at the moment? I don't think you do.
Black S2 106 Rallye LHD
No probs, I do work at a specialist retailer, as I have a HiFi hobby
Cool
Shirley if peeps are buying a good DVD player (upscaling and all that) they can buy a Tosh HD-DVD player for as good (if not cheaper) a price which upscales pretty well, and plays HD-DVD's which blow upscaling out of the water (on a big enough tv).
Maybe there's more margin in high end DVD players
That is a difficult dilemma - which is better, HD-DVD or a very good DVD player?
But then is a 197 better than a 1*2, and then are they better than a Williams?
Newer things are always better on paper - more resolution... more bhp... etc... - but then the older variants can be more enjoyable.
Watching the entire film of Casino Royale on BluRay made me feel sick because that Samsung player is just so jerky. The standard DVD looks less impressive, at a glace, but is more enjoyable for the entire film - smoother, and more natural colours. It is more watchable to my eyes, but the whole topic is subjective.
The same dilemma exists with 1080p screens. Are they better? Technically, yes, but my favourite screen is a Fujitsu one, outputting a "mere 720p". Of course it sounds better at the pub if you have a "1080p", if you're into that sort of thing.
It's all subjective.
SLK 350
That's the point though it's not subjective, it's down to people misconfiguring their hardware that leads to sub-standard reproduction. Each disc is the very same, therefore someone saying "PQ is s**t" and the next person saying "ZOMG it's immense" equates to person 1 having issues with one of the many variables.
Yes people have differing expectations and tolerances of various symptoms, but my point is you cannot blame the BD format for your hardware shortcomings. The fault lies not with the format, BD is stunning quality, as is true of HD-DVD.
A correctly setup image that's been properly caliberated using the same hardware should by definition look better at 1080p than 720p, if that isn't the case then there's something wrong with your eyes/hardware/config.
Yes people have differing expectations and tolerances of various symptoms, but my point is you cannot blame the BD format for your hardware shortcomings. The fault lies not with the format, BD is stunning quality, as is true of HD-DVD.
A correctly setup image that's been properly caliberated using the same hardware should by definition look better at 1080p than 720p, if that isn't the case then there's something wrong with your eyes/hardware/config.
Black S2 106 Rallye LHD
To ensure we're on the same wave length, by hardware, misconfiguring hardware, and hardware settings are you bascially referring to TV settings - contrast, brightness, etc, etc?
I haven't seen enough BluRay/HD-DVD players yet to respond on that basis, but I'll come from a slightly different angle of CDs and DVDs...
..."each disc is the very same", but there is a massive difference in the performance of cheap DVD and CD players compared to expensive players in my personal experiences.
A bit of topic - but Betamax wasn't the big failure the media likes to make out - sure it lost the retail war to VHS.
But the cassette shell design is still in use today in the professional sector.
Betamax became Betacam, then
Betacam SP
Digital Betacam
Betacam SX
Betacam IMX
and finally HD-CAM.
It is without doubt the most successfull cassette design ever!
There is even a professional version of Blue Ray used by the television studios called XD-CAM. Its been available for about 5 years now.
But the cassette shell design is still in use today in the professional sector.
Betamax became Betacam, then
Betacam SP
Digital Betacam
Betacam SX
Betacam IMX
and finally HD-CAM.
It is without doubt the most successfull cassette design ever!
There is even a professional version of Blue Ray used by the television studios called XD-CAM. Its been available for about 5 years now.
I have BT Vision and all the on demand stuf on there is streamed so i can stream movies on my 2mb line while surfing the web too and the picture never breaks up or has to buffer so it will only be a matter of time before its HD content being streamed over the phone line.
Problem is that I would rather have the pyhsical disc to own and watch at my convenience, i like owning the discs, i would pay more to own it than stream it.
As for picture quality above, its all down to the encoding used on the disc, some are better than others and it depends which the studio is using, so even if its released on both formats the quality can look different but bluray and HD-DVD encoded the same look identical. Its just the bluray disc can hold more extras and audio due to its disc size. At the moment it seems HD-DVD is carrying more extras though as they take advantage of the advanced features. Once Bluray java standard is finalised and included on players in the next month or so then bluray discs will enjoy the same features. The beauty of the PS3 being that whatever the outcome of the advanced features they can just upgrade the firmware, something that early bluray players don't have the luxury of doing.
Both are great formats and the only way to enjoy all movies is to own both like I do, then it really isn't a problem and you don't care which format transformers is released on this christmas.
Problem is that I would rather have the pyhsical disc to own and watch at my convenience, i like owning the discs, i would pay more to own it than stream it.
As for picture quality above, its all down to the encoding used on the disc, some are better than others and it depends which the studio is using, so even if its released on both formats the quality can look different but bluray and HD-DVD encoded the same look identical. Its just the bluray disc can hold more extras and audio due to its disc size. At the moment it seems HD-DVD is carrying more extras though as they take advantage of the advanced features. Once Bluray java standard is finalised and included on players in the next month or so then bluray discs will enjoy the same features. The beauty of the PS3 being that whatever the outcome of the advanced features they can just upgrade the firmware, something that early bluray players don't have the luxury of doing.
Both are great formats and the only way to enjoy all movies is to own both like I do, then it really isn't a problem and you don't care which format transformers is released on this christmas.
Id like to know the figures for the Blue Ray players and HD players, ignoring the consoles..
I have no need for a PS3, I hardly use my 360. However, If BlueRay wins, and all the films will be out on that then i'll buy a PS3. It makes sense too.
I wonder if MS will bring out a BlueRay add-on drive too?
I have no need for a PS3, I hardly use my 360. However, If BlueRay wins, and all the films will be out on that then i'll buy a PS3. It makes sense too.
I wonder if MS will bring out a BlueRay add-on drive too?
182FF c/w Recaros
And you're not alone with this.
Zillions of others are the same (including me). There's just something about owning your own shiny case with a special disc inside:approve:
Need much faster speeds etc etc. Be another decade at least before talk about Optical discs being threatened by d/l content etc etc.
SLK 350
I'm not sure that Sony would license or humour and add-on for the 360
BD is outselling HD-DVD by 4:1 afaik, but it's all very wooly as far as official released figures go, everybody seems to have a different take on it. Blockbuster only stocking BD is a big deal though, the only thing BD needs now is cheaper and more easily accessible players.
Actually I'm surprised Sony don't market the PS3 as their choice BD player right now, as I'm pretty sure that 50% of people in the HD market have no idea the PS3 will even play films, let alone make an excellent job of doing so.
BD is outselling HD-DVD by 4:1 afaik, but it's all very wooly as far as official released figures go, everybody seems to have a different take on it. Blockbuster only stocking BD is a big deal though, the only thing BD needs now is cheaper and more easily accessible players.
Actually I'm surprised Sony don't market the PS3 as their choice BD player right now, as I'm pretty sure that 50% of people in the HD market have no idea the PS3 will even play films, let alone make an excellent job of doing so.
i have seen figures where HD-DVD players are outselling BD but this is excluding the PS3, with the PS3 BD has a bigger install, but its not clear as to whether they should be included as not everyone will use it as a BD player, some will only use it for gaming etc.
MKIII 138
what tv you using btw ??
182FF c/w Recaros
Indeed they do.
I think 2:1 is nearer the mark for BR outselling HD-DVD (software) according to various reports out there.
That's not a bad result for HD-DVD when you consider there are 5 times (maybe 10!) as many pontential BR players out there then there are HD-DVD players....
That's no surprise though as the PS3 afterall, is a games machine first.
Black S2 106 Rallye LHD
That Samsung player was just plugged into a Panasonic TH42PX70 and sometimes a new Sharp 1080p panel - I can't remember the model.
The Samsung player just isn't that great, IMO. But that doesn't mean BluRay is bad as it's only a 1st (?) gen player, and I'm sure there's better to come.
I prefer the Toshiba HD XE1 HD-DVD player, but to be fair that was through a much more expensive Fujitsu screen.
MKIII 138
the point is that blueray is film based.
its 24hz which is on the edge of human movement perception all blueray and HD-DVD will look like this pretty much to a lesser of greater extent.
blueray can do euro 60hz but there wont be anything other than perhaps bbc hd planet earth like this.
there are new sansumg player that do 78hz which doubles the frame rate using interpolation for screens that can accept this.
its something you dont hear much about but thats the reason
also.. until recently PS3 did not have a force 24hz option, nor do many 1080p screens there are many people with 1080p screens and hd players with hdmi aswell that arent getting 1:1 pixel mapped 24hz i.e the true image as the screen needs a force option but dont have it, very much like the new samsung 1080p range
Black S2 106 Rallye LHD
Thanks, Meggerman. It was this scene in Casino Royale that particuarly bugged me on BluRay, but I'd never noticed it on standard DVD.
There's an interesting read about 24p/24hz here.
Panasonic also write a bit about applications of it here.
Regards,
MKIII 138
a fair few people over at Avforums.com have mentioned that scene in casino royale.
id prefer better colour range 720p with 60fps hd rather than the 8bit colour gamma corrected 1080p at 24fps/hz were getting now
