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do you rate flamer kits
- Thread starter pete bann
- Start date
Not a big fan but maybe on the right car which can push out some big flames it would look cool, otherwise dont fancy losing more money on petrol!
Clio 16v, Uno Turbo, VRS
i must admit, i like them and have considered buying one for my clio but im worried about melting my rear bumper! do u think this would happen?
Dunc
clio 20v
they only work really on turbo cars so would work on duncs car
dont cats stop fuel from getting past? so in that case its no good
dunno about melting bumper, probably after a bit, they do sell you a fire extinguisher with it though
adi
Clio 16v, Uno Turbo, VRS
er lads i own a clio gt turbo so it would work wouldnt it? and would it melt my bumper?
Dunc
DOH!!!!
i thought you had a clio AND a 5 GT, hence me saying it wouldnt work on you clio.
And the matter weather it was decatted or not would not mean the exhaust gas was flammable.
IF, tehre was unburnt fuel making it to your cat, and hence passing though it (it does not dissapear) it would ruin your cats rare metal components which are used to catalyse the reaction that turns harmful waste gasses into water.
Again, IF you are getting enough fuel through your NA engine in general on teh rd, then you are heavily overfueling and most probably making less power than you should be. Turbos can do it cause they have a dumpvalve and a wastegate. WHich in sequence allow charge into teh exhaust where it is ignitied by the flamer kit since it has not passed though the actual cylinder head. However, in most cases the fueling has to be adjusted (read increased) to get the flames the size that the company advertises.
On race NA engine before somebody brings it up
, are a completely different animal........Flames Kits:
Flamer kits (in my opinion) are just a crap product for the Max Power generation. A spark plug is fixed into the tailpipe and I think an injector goes there too. Once switched on, the injector and spark plug make flames. What a stupid idea - anyone can make a fire with the three properties!
Real Flames:
Although most people believe natural flames are produced by a rich mixture, it is quite the opposite. When the car reaches high revs but the throttle is shut (or close to shut), the A/F mixture will be very weak, so week infact that it is not volatile enough to ignite in the very short space of time it is given (due to high revs). Instead, it moves through to the exhaust and the fuel builds up there. Once there is enough fuel, it meets the oxygen outside the tail pipe and - BOOM! Flame(s)!
This effect is enhanced on turbocharged cars: As the throttle is snapped shut for a gearchange there is still some pressure in the inlet manifold, so a touch more fuel is added (in proportion to what the air meter says), but if this is still too weak, the same thing will happen, only there is more fuel there to ignite.
As BenR correctly said, flames will not occur on a car with a CAT (unless you fit a flamer kit with a fuel supply) because the CAT will attempt to treat the unburnt fuel and break it down into harmless elements, so by the time it reaches the outside (or the poxy flamer kit) it will not be a combustable fuel anymore.
Hope this helps - Laurence.
Also a wastegate does not alow charge into the exhaust - more accuratley, it only puts into the exhaust what was on its way there anyway. The only difference is that it bypasses the turbos turbine housing instead of going through it.
Dump valves do not alow charge into the exhaust either. They will either vent boost to atmosphere, or back into the intake pipes. The only reason dump valves can produce flames is because the ECU will acount for X amount of air (boost), but most of that gets vented out of the dump valve upon lifting off the throttle, but the ECU knows nothing of this, so you end up with an over-rich mixture which does not fully burn. This fuel ignites itself upon exiting the tailpipe.
haha, nice explanation mate........
I was kinda intending all that through the seqence part of the sentence, but good you could be bothered to type it all.
Anyway, the flamer kit does not use an injector to increase fueling.
merely runs off unburnt stuff.
And the one thing im not sure about is when you push the button, does it spark one or several times, or repeatedly until you take your finger off?
Im no expert on turbo systems so please correct me if Im wrong, but
1. the dump valve has nothing to do with letting charge into the exhaust system. On a car without an airflow meter (eg my soon to be turbod Clio) the ECU detects boost using the MAP sensor. If youre on full boost then let off the throttle it makes no difference whether the dump valve dumps or even if for some weird reason it doesnt - the throttle plate is closed and there will be a vacuum in the inlet manifold, hence no fuelling requirement will be commanded by the ECU???
2. the wastegate surely will only let the charge bypass the turbine if youre at full throttle and full boost, then it will let exhaust gas past the turbine to prevent more overboost. What has this got to do with suddenly letting off the throttle to cause a flames situation?
Sorry if it seems like Im arguing about nothing, but for obvious reasons Im trying to learn about turbo systems and now Im confused...someone clear this up for me! Plus I definitely want flames.
Therell always be people who say flames from the exhaust arent cool, but when you see a genuine short burst of flame and a pop from a car that naturally does it, that is wicked. I do think when you see cars that have had a flame kit put on and its more like a 4 foot long flamethrower effect, then it looks silly, mainly because it just doesnt look like a thing that a real engine would do.Morning Nick, its now 11am here and im off to pickup my 172 from storage!!!! YAY!
long trip there and have to meet the GF for lunch...but the return trip should only be a few mins
.Yes, the wastegate controls max boost though allowing a % of exhaust to bypass the turbine.
And i think you are right that we are getting all crossed up.
But i can see where i went wrong..........but note, i dont know about turbos in the quantity i do about NA tunning. so i willleave it to a turbo expert on here.
At least we all agree on 2 things. That flamer kits are a waste of time and that flames should be left to cars that can make them without the use of an additional spark plug
Nick: You are correct in what you say with the exception of the dump valve part. When on full boost (say 1 bar for arguments sake) there will be 1 bar of pressure in the inlet manifold. In out example Upon letting off the throttle, there will NOT be a vacum in the inlet manifold. Where will all this boost go to cause a vacum? What you will see on a boost gauge is it gradually falling back to zero, because although the throttle plate is shut, a fair bit of the air will still be going in to the cylinders because of the pressure behind the throttle plate. The gauge will show less and less boost until you get back on the throttle again so the turbo can make some more.
This is a really good thread, the sort of thread I used to see all the time when I first came here. Lots of good posts. Lets keep it going.
Clio 16v, Uno Turbo, VRS
but say my sh*t heap then wasted u down the straight??
that would shut u up
not causing no argument just saying, ill wait till i get my full straight through zorst on with just a b/box(small one) and see if it flames then, if not i want a flamer kit!
Dunc
20VT Clio & 9-5 HOT
lol good call Dunc, why not have show *and* go? I still think flames are cool as long as its little bursts of flame spitting out so quick youre not sure whether it really did it or not. Something like the Cossie above is way too much IMHO.
Frosty, so once you let off, and the throttle snaps shut, you have still got some pressure in the inlet manifold, although this decreases very rapidly surely? It will only take a split second for the charge trapped between the closed throttle and the cylinder head, to fill the cylinders, burn, then be exhausted? Then that leaves you with a vacuum caused by the cylinders trying to draw a charge in with no entry point for new air to get into the manifold? The MAP sensor will still only read the absolute pressure that is there and if its less than atmospheric it will cut the fuel...?
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