Engine mods - Which way round?

[ahiggins_1]

Sorry if this has been done before but after a couple of months of owning my 172 cup, which im loving, I was wondering what are the best mods to go for and which order to do them? Having read a few modification threads I have an idea of what I'm wanting to do.

I've already got a K-tec stealth cat back then I'm planning on getting a K-tech induction kit within the next month, should I get it remapped after this as it will be a while until I have enough money to move onto the next stage or should I wait until I've sorted everything before remapping? What is the best remap to go for?

I plan on getting cat cams, which are the best to go for? and maybe matched inlets but have read mixed reviews about doing this.

Will there be any internal work needed with these modifications ie clutch. I intend on uprating the brakes at some point.

Any sort of guess-timate as to what the result in bhp would be for the above? cat back exhaust, induction kit, matched inlets, cams and remap?

Thanks in advance

 

[Scotty-boi]

Your looking about 2k for all of that.
I would go for 438s.
Leave mapping until its all done. No point in wasting money.

 

[Scotty-boi]

You don't need to uprate any internals for that. Just ensure you have a healthy engine

 

[ben81]

I'd go for mounts first.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sounds a similar spec to Oli's his made 195 or so at Ktec's rolling road IIRC, and 185 on saturday at Surrey rolling road, I'd be inclined to take more notice of the latter.


TBH considering its going to cost you the value of the car, you need to go into it realising the difference is going to be relatively marginal.

 

[ahiggins_1]

I'd go for mounts first.

Seen this mentioned quite a bit so looks like a reasonable mod to make.

 

[ahiggins_1]

Sounds a similar spec to Oli's his made 195 or so at Ktec's rolling road IIRC, and 185 on saturday at Surrey rolling road, I'd be inclined to take more notice of the latter.


TBH considering its going to cost you the value of the car, you need to go into it realising the difference is going to be relatively marginal.

Yeah, was thinking of finding a current project with similar upgrades to see how it went.
I know what you mean by looking at marginal differences at that cost and I know it sounds sad but tbh this is the first car I can actually see myself keeping for some time, I think as a package the car is outstanding.

 

[Dan519]

Sounds a similar spec to Oli's his made 195 or so at Ktec's rolling road IIRC, and 185 on saturday at Surrey rolling road, I'd be inclined to take more notice of the latter.


TBH considering its going to cost you the value of the car, you need to go into it realising the difference is going to be relatively marginal.

it wasn't knackered and smoking before. It's burning oil and needs a rebuild now (not linked to the work.....just worn out)

 

[Chip-mk1]

it wasn't knackered and smoking before. It's burning oil and needs a rebuild now

Yeah I remember it seeming like a really nice condition car with a healthy engine before hand.

(not linked to the work.....just worn out)

Ah, not damaged by poor mapping or anything then, just yet another co-incidence?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah, was thinking of finding a current project with similar upgrades to see how it went.

Well worth doing mate, graphs and such like are one thing but first hand experience is far better way to tell if its what you want or not.

I know what you mean by looking at marginal differences at that cost and I know it sounds sad but tbh this is the first car I can actually see myself keeping for some time, I think as a package the car is outstanding.

Preaching to the choir with me mate, my mrs got a 172 as a cheap daily a couple of years ago (for 1600 quid IIRC) and since then we have spent about 4 times that figure on it just to make it a little better.
Its slightly faster, slightly nicer to drive, slightly better on the brakes, slightly better handling, slightly nicer seats etc, no one significant area that its improved but just all subtle things to make it into our interpretation of the perfect daily driver 172 thats still track capable as well.
Yes we know there are lots of things we could have bought with that money instead but we cant think of one we would genuinely prefer if we were only allowed one car for the rest of time to do everything with, they are just EPIC little all rounders

 

[cliokid182]

Yeah, was thinking of finding a current project with similar upgrades to see how it went.
I know what you mean by looking at marginal differences at that cost and I know it sounds sad but tbh this is the first car I can actually see myself keeping for some time, I think as a package the car is outstanding.

I have the same set up your after made 197 bhp on k-tec's RR but figures dont really mean anything, it drives great and i love the car.

 

[ahiggins_1]

I have the same set up your after made 197 bhp on k-tec's RR but figures dont really mean anything, it drives great and i love the car.

Yeah like you say, it's not so much about the figures but it gives me an idea of what can be achieved for doing these modifications. I can imagine its a much improved car to drive. I think i'd limit myself to those mods first and see if I wanted to take it further in the future.

What would you be looking at after that, in general? is it the supercharger - turbo area?

 

[cliokid182]

Yeah like you say, it's not so much about the figures but it gives me an idea of what can be achieved for doing these modifications. I can imagine its a much improved car to drive. I think i'd limit myself to those mods first and see if I wanted to take it further in the future.

What would you be looking at after that, in general? is it the supercharger - turbo area?

Lol problem is its like playing granturismo but with real money........ mrs hates it.

I have thought about S/C and turbo but i use my car as a daily so needs to be realiable im just getting the set up perfect and then will be goin down the ITB route.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lol problem is its like playing granturismo but with real money........ mrs hates it.

I have thought about S/C and turbo but i use my car as a daily so needs to be realiable im just getting the set up perfect and then will be goin down the ITB route.

The only problem with that logic, is that ITB=you will use high revs more often=ultimately less reliable, and especially if you want more power that just bolting a set on a standard engine.

While I kind of agree with your logic based on most of the home brew turbo and supercharger conversions etc on here not seeming very reliable the reality is that done well you can make the same power more reliably with a turbo than with ITBs, hence that most manufacturers for even 100bhp a litre will go turbo, and for anything much past that they always will, you see reliable 300bhp 2 litre cars all the time with a turbo, you wont ever see one on ITBs though which is reliable at that level (well not with 2013 technology anyway, maybe in 20 years but I even doubt that).

So if all you want is 200bhp, fair enough ITB are a reasonable way to do it, if you want 250bhp though, it will be more reliable and cheaper with a turbo.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah like you say, it's not so much about the figures but it gives me an idea of what can be achieved for doing these modifications. I can imagine its a much improved car to drive. I think i'd limit myself to those mods first and see if I wanted to take it further in the future.

What would you be looking at after that, in general? is it the supercharger - turbo area?

Its not really a good "after" to then turbo it, if you are going to turbo it dont cam it first, its money down the drain.

 

[ahiggins_1]

Its not really a good "after" to then turbo it, if you are going to turbo it dont cam it first, its money down the drain.

Thanks for the advice because this is what I wanted to find out although I never really mentioned it in the first post, if eventually going turbo/supercharger route then cams are a waste of money...this is the kind of knowledge I dont have so could have easily wasted money. That said though, I've seen the price of the kits so will have to weigh up what I would like first.
Say if I went with all the mods listed and then ITB's would you recommend just running it at 200bhp max? I'd be quite satisfied around that mark especially if it could be used as a daily.

 

[Chip-mk1]

ITBs and around 200bhp is a good place to be, and if you mainly drive steady it should be reliable, its only if you give it 7500rpm every gear change it will wear out quicker really.

Rs2 and 197 cams is another option for the 190-200bhp ballpark, thats how we've done it on my mrs daily driver as she wanted cruise control and aircon etc.

This is her car:

Nowhere near as fast as my turbo 172, buts it the one we pick for stuff like ring trips etc just cause its a nice all round package.

 

[ahiggins_1]

Cheers, I like the looks of the ITBs so might go down that route, I drive pretty steady so I can see it being alright for me (46 miles a day means wanting a good mpg).

 

[cliokid182]

The only problem with that logic, is that ITB=you will use high revs more often=ultimately less reliable, and especially if you want more power that just bolting a set on a standard engine.

While I kind of agree with your logic based on most of the home brew turbo and supercharger conversions etc on here not seeming very reliable the reality is that done well you can make the same power more reliably with a turbo than with ITBs, hence that most manufacturers for even 100bhp a litre will go turbo, and for anything much past that they always will, you see reliable 300bhp 2 litre cars all the time with a turbo, you wont ever see one on ITBs though which is reliable at that level (well not with 2013 technology anyway, maybe in 20 years but I even doubt that).

So if all you want is 200bhp, fair enough ITB are a reasonable way to do it, if you want 250bhp though, it will be more reliable and cheaper with a turbo.

Il be happy with 210+ and If I went turbo I'd be forever chasing power like everyone does

 

[Mar172]

That's what I will be getting next itb for the sound as well as extra bhp

 

[ahiggins_1]

Looks like my cambelt is due a change as well! Thought I check and it was last done in 2007 so looks like I have an excuse to get the cams sorted...Better get saving!!!
Sorry if this is a daft question but are matched inlets needed if going the ITB route?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Looks like my cambelt is due a change as well! Thought I check and it was last done in 2007 so looks like I have an excuse to get the cams sorted...Better get saving!!!
Sorry if this is a daft question but are matched inlets needed if going the ITB route?

If you fit ITBs or an RS2 then you remove the inlet completely.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Yeah I remember it seeming like a really nice condition car with a healthy engine before hand.



Ah, not damaged by poor mapping or anything then, just yet another co-incidence?

Gets tiring doesn't it.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Il be happy with 210+ and If I went turbo I'd be forever chasing power like everyone does 

Boost does make it easy to get carried away!

 

[ahiggins_1]

If you fit ITBs or an RS2 then you remove the inlet completely.

Looking likely that I'll give this a miss then.