Engine Rebuild

intazwetrust · Nov 16, 2013

Hi All,

I've sent off for my engine rebuild but the chap doing it can't seem to find anything online which specifies dimensions/clearances/spacing for things such as crank and valves.

Anyone know of a manual of some sort I can download or find?

Many Thanks

intazwetrust · Nov 16, 2013

intazwetrust said:
Hi All,

I've sent off for my engine rebuild but the chap doing it can't seem to find anything online which specifies dimensions/clearances/spacing for things such as crank and valves.

Anyone know of a manual of some sort I can download or find?

Many Thanks

Sorry, it's a 2003 mk2 clio sport 172

intazwetrust · Nov 18, 2013

No one?

Fred@BTM · Nov 18, 2013

erm without trying to upset you, surely the person doing the work should know all this before accepting the job? I do hope they've done these before, but judging by your comment i guess not!!

172Ben · Nov 18, 2013

That wouldn't fill me with confidence!

intazwetrust · Nov 18, 2013

He's one of the very few (good) engine reconditioners left in South Wales. I've used him several times for other engine rebuilds, but he's a grumpy old git that doesn't know how to use the internet and expects all info to be produced to him.

I just need to know tolerances, allowances, spacing, clearance etc so he knows what to work with.

Can anyone help?

Sunglasses_Ron · Nov 18, 2013

This won't end well.

Fred@BTM · Nov 18, 2013

erm he only has to gap the rings, lap in the thrust washers, measure the crank and gauge the bearings

if he's asking for those measurements then i'd be going elsewhere! Don't even get me started on timing up the cams LOL

Ryanj · Nov 18, 2013

I would be very worried right now... get it back and take a trek up to fred!

Fred@BTM · Nov 18, 2013

stock bore is 82.7mm, stock pistons from memory are 82.63mm (that's a guess) i guess you're keeping stock pistons? So just a quick glaze bust/flexihone?? he should know what ring gaps should be

big ends from memory are 1.5thou
mains, would have to check, but i's guess around 1.5-2thou
thrust - obvious

top end he needs to know nothing

intazwetrust · Nov 18, 2013

Wow... you guys are soooo negative. All i'm asking for is measurements, not opinions... thanks Fred for at least trying to help.

Andrewclio · Nov 18, 2013

Is it Hargreaves by any chance?

intazwetrust · Nov 18, 2013

Brian North

Ex-User (60778) · Nov 18, 2013

There's a recent thread regarding a kwik fit garage somewhere, I would recommend you go there

Jay_Kay · Nov 18, 2013

He rebuilt my bottom end. He should know the dimensions :s.

Never asked me that's for sure.

intazwetrust · Nov 18, 2013

Do you all enjoy a good b1tch and a moan?

George182 · Nov 18, 2013

intazwetrust said:
Do you all enjoy a good b1tch and a moan?

Yes

intazwetrust · Nov 18, 2013

George182 said:
Yes

:boring: ... patiently waiting for "the useful one" to answer my questions and help me out

172Ben · Nov 18, 2013

Fred has answered...?

intazwetrust · Nov 18, 2013

he's thrown some guess work in... sorry but that doesn't quite cut it

172Ben · Nov 18, 2013

I'm not sure you'll get much better than him answering tbh.

But good luck

Ex-User (60778) · Nov 18, 2013

Your not even a paid member, traders aren't going to go spouting off every little detail. Why should/would they? I certainly wouldn't. Fair enough some details but as mentioned in this thread, he should know himself.

SharkyUK · Nov 19, 2013

intazwetrust said:
he's thrown some guess work in... sorry but that doesn't quite cut it

Indeed. There's no way I'd trust Fred with several grand of my money and a rebuild of my engine either... :rofl:

Fred@BTM · Nov 19, 2013

^we used a catapult to fit your pistons

intazwetrust · Nov 19, 2013

SharkyUK said:
Indeed. There's no way I'd trust Fred with several grand of my money and a rebuild of my engine either... :rofl:

The figures he gave were from memory... i'm not going to go back with that information as a definitive answer. F**k me you guys are so evasive of actually helping out... do i have to pay to become a member in order to receive the nice treatment? You haven't really sold me the benefit of being a member quite just yet, but i'd be more than happy to pay someone for their time to provide me with the info i need. Jeez...

intazwetrust · Nov 19, 2013

SharkyUK said:
several grand of my money

lol

Chip-mk1 · Nov 19, 2013

You havent even told us what make pistons you are using in the rebuild for example, and yet expect us to know the clearances for them?

Is it being bored (to me a rebuild is new pistons and fresh bores, a refresh is just a hone and lob some rings at it) or just rehoned?
If its not being bored and you are using the old pistons they will almost certainly be outside of correct tolerance but thats just tough as nothing you can do to change it, so just lob the rings on with a reasonable gap (depending on what rings they are this info is often supplied, but if not just use 3-4 thou per inch of bore as a guideline or look in the manual for renaults opinion) and bosh it all back together.

Here is a link that apparently contains all the manuals:
http://www.phil-barker.com/temp/clio_sport_technical_manuals.zip

I assume that will have bearing clearances etc in there but must confess I havent checked, I just pulled it out of this thread for you:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?584307-CLIO-172-Full-Workshop-Manual-Required

Which I would imagine you need to be a member to access.

Regards

Chip

SharkyUK · Nov 19, 2013

intazwetrust said:
The figures he gave were from memory... i'm not going to go back with that information as a definitive answer. F**k me you guys are so evasive of actually helping out... do i have to pay to become a member in order to receive the nice treatment? You haven't really sold me the benefit of being a member quite just yet, but i'd be more than happy to pay someone for their time to provide me with the info i need. Jeez...

Mate - you clearly are new to the site and took my comment out of context. This was more a joke at Fred's expense to be honest! LOL! It's entirely up to you who you choose and I wouldn't dissuade you otherwise (although I would have recommendations if you'd asked!)

I genuinely wish you every success with the build and ultimately hope you enjoy it. I'm not the sort of guy to rip s**t out of folk so apologies if you thought I was taking the p*ss.

intazwetrust said:
lol

What?

Feel free to check out my build thread.

MartinR · Nov 19, 2013

^^is it finished yet?? Have not looked in the thread for a bit.

Longest rebuild on record

SharkyUK · Nov 19, 2013

MartinR said:
^^is it finished yet?? Have not looked in the thread for a bit.

Longest rebuild on record

Stock reply... "nearly!" LOL! There'll be a mahoosive update once it's done and I actually find out what Fred's done and what bits have gone in!

But that's for a different thread so let's not take this one off-topic! I may have inadvertently already done enough damage!

MartinR · Nov 19, 2013

Good stuff sharky

Op as said before if the guy is asking for measurements. Then i would also be concerned.

Chip-mk1 · Nov 19, 2013

MartinR said:
Good stuff sharky

Op as said before if the guy is asking for measurements. Then i would also be concerned.

I can think of plenty of extremely good engine builders out there who I would trust to build any engine but that im fairly sure have never built an F4R before, if they wished to do so then they would need the information the OP is asking for.

Coops Mk1 · Nov 19, 2013

as above, no way an engine rebuilder can know what the specs are for every engine he/she rebuilds, that's madness

what does surprise me is the blokes lack of willingness to research it himself, asking the customer to do it for him is a joke, the whole reason you pay someone to do it for you is so you don't have to know/understand or care about that.

intazwetrust · Nov 19, 2013

Chip-mk1 said:
You havent even told us what make pistons you are using in the rebuild for example, and yet expect us to know the clearances for them?

Is it being bored (to me a rebuild is new pistons and fresh bores, a refresh is just a hone and lob some rings at it) or just rehoned?
If its not being bored and you are using the old pistons they will almost certainly be outside of correct tolerance but thats just tough as nothing you can do to change it, so just lob the rings on with a reasonable gap (depending on what rings they are this info is often supplied, but if not just use 3-4 thou per inch of bore as a guideline or look in the manual for renaults opinion) and bosh it all back together.

Thanks, existing pistons to be used. I've basically taken the lump to the chap and asked for it to be cleaned up and made proper again to standard spec. The car will be used for track only, so along the build and re-conditioning of it he will be looking to balance certain areas of the engine, and lighten them too.

I'm not going to go into too much jargon, as i'm not technically minded, but he has an idea of what i want from it. 205bhp max at the wheels (limited to 175bhp at crank for class I would look to race in. Again, this is just a hobby)

Chip-mk1 · Nov 19, 2013

Coops Turbo said:
as above, no way an engine rebuilder can know what the specs are for every engine he/she rebuilds, that's madness

what does surprise me is the blokes lack of willingness to research it himself, asking the customer to do it for him is a joke, the whole reason you pay someone to do it for you is so you don't have to know/understand or care about that.

I disagree, why should an engine builder spend hours on the internet trying to track down the specs only for him to them be liable if what he googles up isnt correct? Far more sensible if you dont know to ask the customer to supply then its not your fault if the data found is wrong.

intazwetrust · Nov 19, 2013

Coops Turbo said:
as above, no way an engine rebuilder can know what the specs are for every engine he/she rebuilds, that's madness

what does surprise me is the blokes lack of willingness to research it himself, asking the customer to do it for him is a joke, the whole reason you pay someone to do it for you is so you don't have to know/understand or care about that.

He's a grumpy old git who still uses a turn dial phone (not internet or computer savvy)

Chip-mk1 · Nov 19, 2013

intazwetrust said:
Thanks, existing pistons to be used. I've basically taken the lump to the chap and asked for it to be cleaned up and made proper again to standard spec. The car will be used for track only, so along the build and re-conditioning of it he will be looking to balance certain areas of the engine, and lighten them too.

I'm not going to go into too much jargon, as i'm not technically minded, but he has an idea of what i want from it. 205bhp max at the wheels (limited to 175bhp at crank for class I would look to race in. Again, this is just a hobby)

Never mind the engine, can you give me details of where I can buy a gearbox that adds 30bhp? LOL

Chip-mk1 · Nov 19, 2013

intazwetrust said:
He's a grumpy old git who still uses a turn dial phone (not internet or computer savvy)

Plenty of old boys like that out there who are REALLY good engine builders!

Coops Mk1 · Nov 19, 2013

b****cks, your saying that its better for someone who has no idea about engines and no interest to look for technical specs and scribble it on a bit of paper to hand to the person they are trusting and PAYING to do that just for them?

if you provide a service for people you do exactly that, provide the complete service, or you don't take on the job, regardless of whether or not the customer is savvy to the job he/she has entrusted to you or not.

fair enough if that made known before the job is taken on, but not after when I 'looks a bit hard and cba'

Chip-mk1 · Nov 19, 2013

Coops Turbo said:
b****cks, your saying that its better for someone who has no idea about engines and no interest to look for technical specs and scribble it on a bit of paper to hand to the person they are trusting and PAYING to do that just for them?

if you provide a service for people you do exactly that, provide the complete service, or you don't take on the job, regardless of whether or not the customer is savvy to the job he/she has entrusted to you or not.

fair enough if that made known before the job is taken on, but not after when I 'looks a bit hard and cba'

My personal opinion, is that it is down to the person who buys the parts, to find out the specs they should be fitted to from the manufacturer.

But as you say, main thing is to specify this sort of thing in advance.

So it should go:
Cust: "Id like you to build me an XYZ engine"
Engineer: "Sure, not built one before, will you be supplying a technical doc or do you want me to research it at your expense?"
etc

So if you go and buy a set of pistons or bearings or whatever and hand them to an engine builder it makes perfect sense for him to say he wants not just the parts but the clearances that go with the parts.

Engine Rebuild

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