Engine Rebuild

[Coops Mk1]

yes, if you supply the parts then perhaps so, however the OP has just handed an engine over and the builder is supplying the parts, that seems to be the impression I'm getting

to supply your own parts shows a level of knowledge above the layman's; and an interest in the process, so knowledge and understanding to go with that more than likely.

its all generalisation and opinion of course, but personally I would expect the basic level of service to be hand over the engine and wait for a phonecall to say its done and pay.

not personally how I go about it, I scrape the pizza crumbs out the block, move the can of sprite off the piston, fit the rings with some pliers and wedge the lot in with my fingertips, but that's because I personally love the whole process and do it all myself, or as much as I can

 

[intazwetrust]

Never mind the engine, can you give me details of where I can buy a gearbox that adds 30bhp? LOL

Ha... i'm not relying on the rebuild to add the power, i'm hoping it will make it last longer. Power will be coming from exhausts system, 182 manifold and inlets, remap, anything else you can suggest?

 

[George182]

That won't give you 200bhp

You'd be lucky to see 180bhp

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ha... i'm not relying on the rebuild to add the power, i'm hoping it will make it last longer. Power will be coming from exhausts system, 182 manifold and inlets, remap, anything else you can suggest?

you said you want:
205 @ wheels
175 @ flywheel


So between the flywheel and the wheels, something is adding 30bhp



(was a joke, I assume you put it the wrong way around, but to get 205bhp you will need throttle bodies and different cams, not a few bits lightened and balanced)

 

[intazwetrust]

That won't give you 200bhp

You'd be lucky to see 180bhp

Wow, really? I mean i can appreciate that power is lost over wear of the engine, but i was hoping the re-conditioning of it would bring itclose to the 172bhp that it should be.

As a general rule of thumb I would have thought;
a decent exhaust system would add at least 5bhp
the different bits and pieces to make 10bhp from a 172 and 182
plus around 15-20 on a remap? (Ktec remap?)

 

[intazwetrust]

the different bits and pieces to make 10bhp from a 172 and 182

Manifold and inlet

 

[intazwetrust]

you said you want:
205 @ wheels
175 @ flywheel


So between the flywheel and the wheels, something is adding 30bhp

I thought power at fly and power at wheels were different measurements? 175 at fly = 205 there'ish at wheels

 

[VikkiB]

They are. But the gearbox looses power, doesn't multiply it.

 

[intazwetrust]

you saying the gearbox needs reconditioning too? I'm sorry I'm not really following you...

 

[172Ben]

They are 169bhp from the factory. If you were lucky.

 

[George182]

you saying the gearbox needs reconditioning too? I'm sorry I'm not really following you...

172bhp is what Renault quote for power at the flywheel:

You loose some of that power through the gearbox - heat, noise etc

Which means you have less power at the wheels - its unavoidable

 

[George182]

As a general rule of thumb I would have thought;
a decent exhaust system would add at least 5bhp
the different bits and pieces to make 10bhp from a 172 and 182
plus around 15-20 on a remap? (Ktec remap?)

From what I have read on here - you would be lucky to see a 8-10 peak bhp increase for those modifications.

As chip says to get 200+ you need throttle bodies and some cams, or a turbo/supercharger. None of these are cheap options unfortunately.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I thought power at fly and power at wheels were different measurements? 175 at fly = 205 there'ish at wheels

Other way around, your engine makes 175bhp at the flywheel roughly for a good 182, which is about 150 at the wheels.

The wheels figure is lower as power is lost on the way through the transmission.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Wow, really? I mean i can appreciate that power is lost over wear of the engine, but i was hoping the re-conditioning of it would bring itclose to the 172bhp that it should be.

As a general rule of thumb I would have thought;
a decent exhaust system would add at least 5bhp

More like at most 5bhp unless yours is badly blocked.

the different bits and pieces to make 10bhp from a 172 and 182

Thats about a 2bhp difference not 10

plus around 15-20 on a remap? (Ktec remap?)

I dont care what they might quote, NOT going to happen.


You are doing VERY well if you get 185bhp@fly from the list of mods you are saying, most are more like 175 with those mods!

 

[Andyman]

The engineer should have books with the OE spec data in from the companies who supply him with the bearings.


Don't waste your money on lightening and balancing. Their balanced enough from the factory

 

[intazwetrust]

Don't waste your money on lightening and balancing. Their balanced enough from the factory

Yes but any further lightening will require balancing, such as fly

"From what I have read on here - you would be lucky to see a 8-10 peak bhp increase for those modifications. As chip says to get 200+ you need throttle bodies and some cams, or a turbo/supercharger. None of these are cheap options unfortunately." - Thats dissapointing.

Oh well, I certainly won't be going down the forced induction route or ITB's. So i'll have to stick to the original plan and just enjoy what i've got. As I said this is just a hobby, see where i go with it.

Anyone who can give me the accurate figures though for the data of tolerance sizes on crank shaft and bores would be very much appreciated. Have had a look through the manual that was previously linked but nothing specifies it unfortunately.

 

[Andyman]

Look at it another way: Is it so bad it needs lightening and balancing?

Is it going to gain you anything?

Basically no.


I had my flywheel done years ago. The only thing i gained was more space in my wallet. Total waste of money.


BTW did your engine need a rebuild? These F4R's love high miles. They get better with age. As long as its not smoking and blowing there's no need to touch them

 

[intazwetrust]

yes bottom end big bearings went.

I beg to differ... i can understand your point if yours is a daily commute, but mine will be specifically track. Any way of lightening the car, or components is going to shave time off the laps. I'm no pro, but I want to track race properly.

The money is being spent mostly on the chassis and running gear of course.

 

[Kazumz]

Do you all enjoy a good b1tch and a moan?

Yeah, 70% of the forum users here are like this. Unfortunate really.

 

[Chip-mk1]

If the bottom and big end bearings went in a big way, then bin the engine and buy another one to rebuild instead (or even just one to use as is), otherwise you will be into crank grinding which is a bad idea and also the rods will be ruined and the pistons probably damaged from oil starvation, and maybe the bores too.

No point starting with a wrecked engine when for a few hundred quid you can start with a good one.

 

[intazwetrust]

caught it just in time. Pretty certain the bores aren't warped but that's what he'll be checking for. Rods are all good, it was litterally one bearing cap which looked to have scorch marks on it. I've had a few mechanics look at the bits before sending it to the reconditioner so hopefully all is ok

 

[Chip-mk1]

Fingers crossed.