EPAS fault help

[Yarp]

It uses the RPM signal to engage.. so when the engine isn’t running the steering computer won’t operate.. this isn’t essential and with the little box tricking it it works all the time with just the ignition on.

but the main reason is the different assistance maps within the steering computer need both the speed and RPM to work out the assistance perfectly. I found when just having a live speed signal from the ECU and a tricked RPM signal from the box the steering felt awful.

It surely wouldn’t have the option to see exact RPM if it was only to activate the steering computer but if you struggle you could try and see what you think?

Hmm so fairly important then 😂

I’ve crossed the point of no return. I’ve ordered the PMS pas delete as I couldn’t work out an imaginative way to bypass the pulley with the aux belt so that getting fitted and the rest of the pas pipe work etc is in the bin.

Im going to link it to the crank sensor as that should feed a rpm signal to it and see what happens. If not I’ll try the coil pack. If not again I’ll by one of those can boxes to get the signal that way!

 

[sbridgey]

I’ve been following this thread quite closely lurking in the background. I’ve also got epas on my clio and also think it’s a bit rubbish.

have you guys considered binning it off and fitting the ePas from a clio 197/200 and doing a bit of fabrication to make it fit?

 

[Taras2016]

has anyone got a wiring diagram from a mk2 clio diesel or 1.2 petrol as i ve got a wiring diagram showing the steering ecu but the diagram refers to the engine control unit for the rpm signal however i havent got the rest of the diagram so i dont know where its gets the rpm signal from or which pin within the ecu. ive tried taking a signal from the crank sensor but that doesnt work and ive also tired pin 51 on the ecu which is suppose to be engine speed and that doesnt work either. if im correct i dont think the dash would work either as it runs off can bus. so im not sure where to go next if anyone has an ideas please let me know.

 

[Yarp]

has anyone got a wiring diagram from a mk2 clio diesel or 1.2 petrol as i ve got a wiring diagram showing the steering ecu but the diagram refers to the engine control unit for the rpm signal however i havent got the rest of the diagram so i dont know where its gets the rpm signal from or which pin within the ecu. ive tried taking a signal from the crank sensor but that doesnt work and ive also tired pin 51 on the ecu which is suppose to be engine speed and that doesnt work either. if im correct i dont think the dash would work either as it runs off can bus. so im not sure where to go next if anyone has an ideas please let me know.

same, drawn a blank at this!

 

[Taras2016]

same, drawn a blank at this!

View attachment 1576845

yeah that the same diagram ive got but ive just found another ecu pinout which says the engine speed is pin 70 not 51 so im going to try that tomorrow and see if it works.

 

[Yarp]

yeah that the same diagram ive got but ive just found another ecu pinout which says the engine speed is pin 70 not 51 so im going to try that tomorrow and see if it works.

Awesome, please let me know how it goes. Fitting the epas is my job for Monday so at least I know there’s 2 options ruled out!

I still think the plan B of the can adapter to get a rpm signal probably isn’t the end of the world

 

[Taras2016]

Awesome, please let me know how it goes. Fitting the epas is my job for Monday so at least I know there’s 2 options ruled out!

I still think the plan B of the can adapter to get a rpm signal probably isn’t the end of the world

yeah of course no problem,no its maybe what i will look at next otherwise its back to the epas controller or get a gen 90 ecu another excuse to have throttle bodies lol

 

[Yarp]

yeah of course no problem,no its maybe what i will look at next otherwise its back to the epas controller or get a gen 90 ecu another excuse to have throttle bodies lol

Man maths at its absolute finest. Love it haha!

 

[incy-spider]

I can get any diagrams needed, i work for Renault, give me a reminder tomorrow and I’ll post them up..

defo the way to go though, my steering feels absolutely OEM now, so glad I went through it and worked it out!

think I need a refund on the BTT controller kit to be honest!

 

[Taras2016]

I can get any diagrams needed, i work for Renault, give me a reminder tomorrow and I’ll post them up..

defo the way to go though, my steering feels absolutely OEM now, so glad I went through it and worked it out!

think I need a refund on the BTT controller kit to be honest!

Is there any chance you could get the ecu pin out for a 172cup and also the 1.2 petrol or 1.5 diesel with epas so i can compare where the signal comes from for the rpm thanks

 

[incy-spider]

Is there any chance you could get the ecu pin out for a 172cup and also the 1.2 petrol or 1.5 diesel with epas so i can compare where the signal comes from for the rpm thanks

 

[Yarp]

Wow! There’s wiring diagrams and there’s wiring diagrams!

So from that then really it’s square 1 unless I’m being stupid. There no resemblance between the 2 that I can see and without understanding what the ecu does to get the rpm output there’s not much else that can be done with that.

The coil/flywheel sensor have got to be the best bet still. I’m going to fit it and wing it I think. I’ll try 24/54 for the crank sensor then if no luck I’ll go number 1 for the coil.

 

[Taras2016]

so ive been working on the car and finally got the epas to work without the epas controller thanks to incy-spider
and so far everything is working well apart from the steering feels like it has too much flex when turning from left to right quickly is there anyway to eliminate that and increase the feedback as at the moment it feels like an xbox steering wheel.

 

[Yarp]

so ive been working on the car and finally got the epas to work without the epas controller thanks to incy-spider
and so far everything is working well apart from the steering feels like it has too much flex when turning from left to right quickly is there anyway to eliminate that and increase the feedback as at the moment it feels like an xbox steering wheel.

great to hear it’s working. Where did you manage to get the rpm signal from?

@incy-spider pinned his rack which might remove the flex you’re getting

 

[incy-spider]

so ive been working on the car and finally got the epas to work without the epas controller thanks to incy-spider
and so far everything is working well apart from the steering feels like it has too much flex when turning from left to right quickly is there anyway to eliminate that and increase the feedback as at the moment it feels like an xbox steering wheel.

The pinion inside the rack is a 2 piece pinion with a torsion bar which allows flex as you say.. the EPAS column also has something similar inside so you need to pin or weld the pinion in the rack.

pinning is preferable but welding also works.. the problem with welding is it can warp the pinion if you get it too hot. Just tack both sides and carefully go from there. You know if it has warped because once installed in the rack it’ll go tight! (I learned the hard way) but sorted it luckily before re installing into the car!

Weld in that groove either side

 

[Taras2016]

thanks for info but i decided to fit a quick rack instead as i thought it would eliminate the flex but at the moment seems to be okay still has a bit of flex but the more i drive it the better it seems to get so i dont know if its the parts bedding in or im getting use to it lol.

but in regards to the rpm signal i took mine from the coil pack earths but remember if you only take 1 side you only get half the rpm so to get round that you need to take both earths and use a couple of diodes to stop the coil using the wrong earths and when i checked the diagnostic the rpm signal is spot on.

however the new issue is when im pushing harder than normal driving the system seems to have moments where is cuts in and out on certain corners for no reason is there any way to find out if the motor or ecu is at fault or is it a case of just replace parts and find out

 

[incy-spider]

thanks for info but i decided to fit a quick rack instead as i thought it would eliminate the flex but at the moment seems to be okay still has a bit of flex but the more i drive it the better it seems to get so i dont know if its the parts bedding in or im getting use to it lol.

but in regards to the rpm signal i took mine from the coil pack earths but remember if you only take 1 side you only get half the rpm so to get round that you need to take both earths and use a couple of diodes to stop the coil using the wrong earths and when i checked the diagnostic the rpm signal is spot on.

however the new issue is when im pushing harder than normal driving the system seems to have moments where is cuts in and out on certain corners for no reason is there any way to find out if the motor or ecu is at fault or is it a case of just replace parts and find out

Do you have all the ESP turned off?

 

[Taras2016]

well i have a 172 cup so i dont have to worry about esp luckily but at the moment i seem to be having issues with the ecu as ive got hold of another one and after 1 test drive it now turns the steering off when i stop for no reason but the old ecu never did that so its like both of my ecus have two different issues. is there any difference between part numbers as i ve now got 3 different part numbers for the same ecu but dont know if they cross reference.

 

[incy-spider]

The rpm signal activates the computer, What’s it read when stopped?


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[Taras2016]

im not sure as i havent got the laptop today but when i tryed the other ecu it works fine apart from when driving at speed the ecu cant work quick enough but with new ecu it works at speed but not when parking it seems to be one fault or another at the moment.

 

[Jayferg182]

thanks for info but i decided to fit a quick rack instead as i thought it would eliminate the flex but at the moment seems to be okay still has a bit of flex but the more i drive it the better it seems to get so i dont know if its the parts bedding in or im getting use to it lol.

but in regards to the rpm signal i took mine from the coil pack earths but remember if you only take 1 side you only get half the rpm so to get round that you need to take both earths and use a couple of diodes to stop the coil using the wrong earths and when i checked the diagnostic the rpm signal is spot on.

however the new issue is when im pushing harder than normal driving the system seems to have moments where is cuts in and out on certain corners for no reason is there any way to find out if the motor or ecu is at fault or is it a case of just replace parts and find out

What size of diodes did you use for yours. just looking into collecting the bits for mine and don't plan to use the controller heard too many complaints about them so was just wondering??

 

[HSH]

@SteveC_1879 did you try this using PIN 70 or 54?

 

[Yarp]

@SteveC_1879 did you try this using PIN 70 or 54?

I decided to be a hero and just sack the PAS off completely. I needed the car back on the road so quickly so removing it was the easy option. The EPAS column is still sat in the corner of the garage 😂.

@incy-spider is your man for advice on this one.

 

[HSH]

Like the inpatient clown I am, I spliced into pin 24. Car didn’t start, so going to try pin 54. Any suggestions @incy-spider ?
I have noticed a wire going to the AC ECU from the engine. Maybe this is the answer?

 

[HSH]

Ordered some diodes, will give these a go tomorrow splicing into 31 & 1