Evo Issue 135

[JonC]

I know a little about the virtues of small light weight car with a small engine, modest power and skinny tyres. We had a 1.0 Micra, 55bhp, 815kg, 155 tyres. In isolation it's a little screamer, very chuckable and limits are very reachable even before reaching NSL. It was fun because I drove it without a care in the world as it was only worth under a grand and cheap to repair and replace parts. However, whilst I could drive its usable performance 100% of the time on the roads, up against other traffic I could help wanting a little more from the car.

The Trophy, again in isolation is also a little screamer, very chuckable and its limits are much higher. It's fun to drive, whilst giving consideration to other road users, relatively cheap to run and repair. It has no problems keeping up with the majority of traffic and give quite a bit more when you want to push on and would say I could realistically use about 80% of performance potential in everyday driving and 100% early morning when there is no other traffic.

Now I'd love to own a 997 GT3 and I stress I have never driven one, but I imagine its is also a screamer of a car x100 and have extremely high limits and would be fun to drive on a track. On the roads I'm not so sure. I would say you'd only be able to use fraction of its performance potential a fraction of the time. Yes the Porsche is a great car and so are the likes of Ferrari's, Astons, etc, but I'd be very wary of extracting its performance potential as the difference in speed between you and other traffic could be huge, a big problem for you and other road users. From an ownership perspective it's expensive to run and maintain and repair.

So you see, a Trophy provides the perfect blend of fun handling, relatively cheap running costs and everyday usable and accessible performance. However, once in a while you may get a car so brilliant that even extracting the performance for a fraction of the time and how the car makes you feel when driving it or even just looking at it, that experience transcends all other considerations hence why the Zonda is at the top spot.

 

[bradharding24]

I cant help but thinking that if you cant count more than 6 cars you would derive more pleasure from driving than a clio trophy, you just arnt thinking hard enough.

 

[Gally]

Lol the puma sneeked in at 99! Whoop!

 

[JonC]

I cant help but thinking that if you cant count more than 6 cars you would derive more pleasure from driving than a clio trophy, you just arnt thinking hard enough.

Yes, there are more pleasurable cars to drive than the Trophy, but I need a car that is more than just a pleasurable drive!

 

[bradharding24]

Yes, there are more pleasurable cars to drive than the Trophy, but I need a car that is more than just a pleasurable drive!

But evo rates the cars on driving experience. How good a drivers car it is. I think anyone with any imagination living in the real world could count more than 6 cars they would find more pleasure in driving that a clio trophy.

I would personally take any ferrari ever built on a drive over the black mountain over a trophy, so that must be at least 50+ cars to start with.

Add in porsche, lamborghini, bugatti and aston martin and you must have 250 + cars that most people in the real world would get more pleasure from on a blast over a highland mountain. Unless of course your job is driving supercars for a living. In which case you are detatched from reality and your opinion is worthless tothe common man.

They put these cheap cars in the lists to keep the reader interested in the articals. Everyone knows that if the list was more credible it would not have a sub 50k car in the top 100.

 

[JonC]

No cars under £50k?, what no Elise or Exige, Caterhams, Arial Atom, 370Z, Evos and Impreza, etc? Yes the guys at EVO drive supercars for a living but also drive and run long term tests of more every cars cars too so are more qualified than you or myself regarding the driving experience of these cars. They don't all drive home from the office in Zonda's or Bugatti's you know! I'd argue that they include these so called cheap cars into the mix to add some reality to the driving experience the "common man" can relate to.

 

[JT182]

But evo rates the cars on driving experience. How good a drivers car it is. I think anyone with any imagination living in the real world could count more than 6 cars they would find more pleasure in driving that a clio trophy.

I would personally take any ferrari ever built on a drive over the black mountain over a trophy, so that must be at least 50+ cars to start with.

Add in porsche, lamborghini, bugatti and aston martin and you must have 250 + cars that most people in the real world would get more pleasure from on a blast over a highland mountain. Unless of course your job is driving supercars for a living. In which case you are detatched from reality and your opinion is worthless tothe common man.

They put these cheap cars in the lists to keep the reader interested in the articals. Everyone knows that if the list was more credible it would not have a sub 50k car in the top 100.

Complete rubbish. Exige? Atom? M3? Caterham's? Radical's? Need I go on? It's about driving a great car, not driving something just because it's worth a lot of money and has the 'right' badge. Which ever way you look at it, the Trophy is up there amongst the best ever for a reason; it's absolutely brilliant to drive on any type of road.

 

[bradharding24]

You have to understand evo mag exists to make money. It does this by selling magazines. It sells more by involving your cars in lists of exotic cars to massage your ego. And the response on these threads shows that people fall for it. When their car is in a list of exotic sports cars they rush out and buy the magazine.

Its a game, and the evo mag staff know how to play you like a fiddle.

Its fiction, but it appears that some are unable to discern between this and reality.

 

[JonC]

Well that doesn't make sence! If Evo exists only to make money by including normal everyday cars that we own only to get us to buy the magazines, they why include limited/special editions in their top ten? DOH! Why then didn't they put Integra DC2, an excellent car I add, or Focus ST/RS, MR2s, 306 GTI, BMWs etc instead where it would appeal to a wider audience and therefore a bigger potential market? At the end of the day, it is what it is, take it or leave it.

 

[bradharding24]

Who is evomags target audience?

People with ferraris? No

People with Bugattis? No

Its people who drive cars like the focus RS, clio trophy and Pugeot 306. The sort of people who may do an occassional track day now and then.

Thats why the pop these cars into tests. Its sells more (notice i said more, not all) magazines that way.

People love to read about themselves, hear the sound of their own voice and read nice things about things theyve bought to help them justify in their own mind that they made the right decision. Every evo mag test thread is full of posters who want reasurance about their car.

The trick is to take evo mag with a pinch of salt and realise its a comic with nice pictures.

 

[JonC]

Who is evomags target audience?

People with ferraris? No

People with Bugattis? No

Its people who drive cars like the focus RS, clio trophy and Pugeot 306. The sort of people who may do an occassional track day now and then.

Thats why the pop these cars into tests. Its sells more (notice i said more, not all) magazines that way.

People love to read about themselves, hear the sound of their own voice and read nice things about things theyve bought to help them justify in their own mind that they made the right decision. Every evo mag test thread is full of posters who want reasurance about their car.

The trick is to take evo mag with a pinch of salt and realise its a comic with nice pictures.

So people like to read about the cars that they own and reap the praise bestowed on their steed. Evo heavily features exotic cars such as Ferrari's and Bugatti's and the such like and yet these owners are not the target audience?!! I think I need some salt and a lot of it too!! :S

 

[Gally]

Evo rate the Racing Puma the best FWD car ever yet never included it in there top 100.

Yes it's not flawed in any way! :S

 

[Seedy172]

Who is evomags target audience?

People with ferraris? No

People with Bugattis? No

Its people who drive cars like the focus RS, clio trophy and Pugeot 306. The sort of people who may do an occassional track day now and then.

Thats why the pop these cars into tests. Its sells more (notice i said more, not all) magazines that way.

People love to read about themselves, hear the sound of their own voice and read nice things about things theyve bought to help them justify in their own mind that they made the right decision. Every evo mag test thread is full of posters who want reasurance about their car.

The trick is to take evo mag with a pinch of salt and realise its a comic with nice pictures.

I don't understand what your problem is TBH, it's a entertaining magazine. Good tests and great write ups IMO. I don't read it to 'massage my ego', I read because I enjoy it, and it's an informative read. Sure, their opinion may differ to yours, but I know who i'd rather listen too. If you don't like it, why buy it in the first place.

 

[ForceIndia]

But evo rates the cars on driving experience. How good a drivers car it is. I think anyone with any imagination living in the real world could count more than 6 cars they would find more pleasure in driving that a clio trophy.

.

Missing the point entirely. Focus on the steering, handling, feedback. If you take into account noise, drama, etc etc then of course there are other cars you'd rather drive. But the whole ethos of evo etc is that they try and cut to the core of driving. As an overall car, a 996c2 is a far better car than the trophy. But, purely for driving, the trophy's the better car.

 

[ForceIndia]

Evo rate the Racing Puma the best FWD car ever yet never included it in there top 100.

Yes it's not flawed in any way! :S

Erm, no they don't! In the best FWD feature, they didn't even take a puma to the final. The finalists were the 205gti, williams, golf gti mk V, dc2 integra type R, mini GP, trophy.
Iirc, they rate the 1.7puma above the Racing Puma.

 

[Gally]

I can't find it but it tested FRP Vs integra type R Vs ph1 172.

The car was the 'slowest' there but won the test.

This was all I found.

0-80mph:
ITR: 11.2
172: 12.0
FRP: 13.2

Pembrey:
FRP: 1:13.75
172: 1:15.40
ITR: 1:15.48

 

[JonC]

Can't find it? you read it nearly 2 hours ago in the link I posted in the 182 vs FRP thread!! The test was by TopGear! FRP won that test, but wasn't declared the best FWD ever!!

 

[Gally]

The one I read had a flame red ph1 mate. :S

 

[matt_turbo_2000]

I trust EVO they have driven an reviewed basically every sporty/supercar worth writing about so obviously know what they are talking about and where they are coming from when they write these things! This list is obviously about what cars feel right, put a smile on your face, surprise you! Not how fast it goes, how fast it corner, how much it costs!

I guess the trophy is so far up the list because they never expected it to be that good, and can just be chucked round any type of road and be enjoyable!

But at the end of the day it's personal choice! I wouldnt mind owning that list of 100 cars I would be happy haha!

 

[ForceIndia]

Think you might have your wires crossed fella. Every recent test in Evo has had the Trophy as the best hot hatch, and it's between that and the dc2 for the best FWD car ever (in their opinion).

 

[bradharding24]

Missing the point entirely. Focus on the steering, handling, feedback. If you take into account noise, drama, etc etc then of course there are other cars you'd rather drive. But the whole ethos of evo etc is that they try and cut to the core of driving. As an overall car, a 996c2 is a far better car than the trophy. But, purely for driving, the trophy's the better car.

There is more to driving that steering, handling and feedback.


What about noise for a start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YPabCzxMXM

 

[JonC]

The one I read had a flame red ph1 mate. :S

Oh sorry, it's just you quoted the times from the TopGear article that just so happens to also have tested them at Pembery. Which I stand corrected as it was actually won by the Clio and not the FRP.

I do also have the Evo test where they tested the ITR, the FRP and Trophy (not a flame red clio). Here it concluded:

The Puma "doesn't quite suck you in as ably as the addictively encouraging Integra and Clio. Which one then? Simple, Clio for everyday, Puma as an investment, Integra from balls-out weekends."

 

[cat171]

I purchased the mag earlier on (quite a shock tbh) I'm a bit surprised that the ITR (dc2 thingy) only came in at number 22, I don't think it was that long ago that they really rated it & it was into the top ten.

They did vote the vee at number 25, drivers car ? Not really.

 

[MarkCup]

But evo rates the cars on driving experience. How good a drivers car it is. I think anyone with any imagination living in the real world could count more than 6 cars they would find more pleasure in driving that a clio trophy.

I would personally take any ferrari ever built on a drive over the black mountain over a trophy, so that must be at least 50+ cars to start with.

Add in porsche, lamborghini, bugatti and aston martin and you must have 250 + cars that most people in the real world would get more pleasure from on a blast over a highland mountain. Unless of course your job is driving supercars for a living. In which case you are detatched from reality and your opinion is worthless tothe common man.

They put these cheap cars in the lists to keep the reader interested in the articals. Everyone knows that if the list was more credible it would not have a sub 50k car in the top 100.

LOL at completely missing the point of what Evo mag are getting at.

Would I rather hear an Italian V8 or a French in-line 4? A V8 of course but WTF has that got to do with the drive?

A good car is one that does what it's told, when it's told, inspiring confidence in the driver to use more of its performance.

Noise, looks, pace, and price have got absolutely f*** all to do with it.

 

[scott7912]

Trophy was 7th, end of, just stop all your moaning!!
Yes there are lots of better cars that other people like but Evo like the Trophy 7th so :rasp:.
The Trophy would be in my top ten garage, that is because i like it, otherwise i would have bought one of the other 100 best drivers cars in Evo mag!

 

[bradharding24]

Well i didnt expect anyone to think about this. I mean really think.

Only 6 cars better to drive than a clio trophy? Come on. Harry et al are probably down the pub laughing at you guys for lapping this s**t up.

 

[ForceIndia]

There is more to driving that steering, handling and feedback.


What about noise for a start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YPabCzxMXM

That's got nothing to do with how good a car is to drive. That effects how much own and enjoy using the car on a day to day basis. On a track day or a blast in North Wales, how your car sound's doesn't matter at all. When pootling along in the AMV8 it's awesome, sounds incredible. When driving it hard, I don't even notice.

 

[ForceIndia]

FFS, just realised I'm breaking one of my own rules. Never feed the troll!

 

[Englebert]

I'm on a few car forums and this exact same thread is on each of them!

 

[fUbAr]

Well i didnt expect anyone to think about this. I mean really think.

Only 6 cars better to drive than a clio trophy? Come on. Harry et al are probably down the pub laughing at you guys for lapping this s**t up.

Agree with this. Granted it's an excellent drive... but 7th best drivers car ever to be made? Nah, surely not?

 

[Tav]

The best driver's cars don't have to be supercars. If you think about it a lot of super cars are compromised on British roads. They might be too low and stiff to tackle anything other than smooth tarmac. The controls might be heavy and difficult to use (Autocar sighted control weights as being very important in a drivers car). The chassis might generate massive amounts of grip but give very little feedback.

Sheer speed or accelerative force does not solely account for pleasure...otherwise we might as well all ride roller coasters rather than drive on great roads. A super car makes a great picture on a bed room wall but the reality is that they often disappoint from behind the wheel.

I've been in a LP560-4, driven by Jethro from EVO/DR on the route Prodrive use for testing their road cars in Northampton. Yes it was fast, yes it was noisey...but the road was pretty bland and it wasn't terribly exciting once you get used the speed. 3 wheeling round lumpy Scottish mountains in a Trophy would have been much more fun...and fun is the reason the Trophy scored so well. BTW you couldn't take a Lamborghini/Ferrari onto some of our best highland roads, they would bottom out, graze their noses and have you pootling along at a snails pace.

The top 10 has to encompass 10 different cars. It cannot be filled with 3 or 4 rally replica's even if they are better than a FWD french hatch (arguable given that many are sterile, efficient, rockets that put speed before pleasure). Likewise it can't be filled with every derivative of the Lotus Elise...Exige...340R...2/11 etc. etc.

EVO have created a top 10 that has a champion for everyone, for a lot of people on here that champion will be the Trophy.

 

[ukaskew]

Only 6 cars better to drive than a clio trophy? Come on. Harry et al are probably down the pub laughing at you guys for lapping this s**t up.

If I remember correctly, Harry parted with his own cash to own a Trophy, and uses it a whole lot more than his Zonda.

Considering he has the budget to drive pretty much anything he wants, don't you find it strange that he bought a £15k car and hardly ever stops talking about it? What he does in his private time doesn't sell magazines, but yet during that private time he can be found driving a Trophy reasonably frequently.

I would also disagree that Evo is primarily aimed at the 'dreamer' end of the market, the companies willing to advertise in the mag, and the guys that come forward to supply cars etc suggests to me that they have a significant 'loaded' reader base.

 

[R20 CWH]

the comments on poor print quality are interesting, the spine of my fell apart from a 30minutes read, pages of s**t everywhere - BOOOOOOOO

 

[rory182]

is the full list published online? I don't buy mags, I'm tight.

 

[dalla]

What about a R5 GTT?

 

[Jasey]

is the full list published online? I don't buy mags, I'm tight.

Don't you use Google either.

Add lazy to your list :rasp:

100. Toyota MR2 Mk1
99. Ford Puma 1.7
98. VW Corrado VR6
97. Ford Sierra Cosworth
96. TVR Cerbera Speed 6
95. Jaguar XKR [2009]
94. BMW M5 E60
93. Ferrari 355 Berlinetta F1
92. Aston Martin Vanquish S
91. Bugatti EB110
90. Ford Escort Cosworth
89. VW Golf GTI Mk1 and Mk2
88. Jaguar XJ220
87. Vauxhall VX220
86. Nissan 350Z
85. Audi Quattro
84. Lancia Delta Integrale
83. Aston Martin V8 Vantage N400
82. BMW M5 E34
81. Bugatti Veyron
80. Ford Escort RS2000 [Mk1 and Mk2 Escort]
79. Ferrari 612 Scaglietti
78. Lancia Fulvia HF
77. Wiesmann GT MF5
76. Mini Cooper S R53
75. Peugeot 106 Rallye
74. BMW M5 E39
73. Porsche 959
72. TVR Tuscan Mk2
71. McLaren F1
70. Nissan Skyline R33
69. Koenigsegg CCX
68. TVR Sagaris
67. Mini Cooper S [1963-64]
66. Ferrari 250 GTO
65. Porsche 993 GT2
64. Audi RS4 [2006-08]
63. Peugeot 306 Rallye
62. BMW M3 E92
61. Renaultsport Clio 200 Cup
60. Lamborghini Diablo 6.0 VT
59. Gumpert Apollo
58. Ferrari Enzo
57. Alfa Romeo Alfasud
56. Jaguar E-Type
55. Renault Alpine A610
54. Lamborghini Gallardo
53. Lotus 2-Eleven
52. Porsche Boxster S
51. Subaru Impreza STI [2005-07]
50. Porsche 968 Club Sport
49. Porsche Carrera GT
48. Honda NSX
47. Noble M400
46. Porsche 911 Turbo [993]
45. Mercedes CLK63 Black Series
44. Aston Martin Vantage V12 [2009-]
43. Toyota MR2 Roadster Mk3
42. TVR Griffith
41. Porsche Cayman S
40. Ariel Atom 300
39. Ford Focus RS Mk2 [2009-]
38. Porsche 911 Carrera S [997]
37. Porsche 911 RS [964]
36. Lotus Exige
35. Mitsubishi Evo IX FQ-360
34. Lotus Esprit V8 Sport 350
33. Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SV
32. Subaru Impreza P1 [2000-01]
31. Lotus Evora
30. Renault Clio Williams
29. Honda NSX Type-R
28. Porsche 911 RS 2.7 [1972-3]
27. BMW M3 CSL
26. BMW M3 [E30]
25. Renault Clio V6
24. Ferrari 288 GTO
23. Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9
22. Honda Integra Type-R [1996-00]
21. Nissan GT-R
20. Ferrari 550 Maranello
19. Lotus Elise [1996-00]
18. Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
17. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano
16. Audi R8
15. Ferrari 430 Scuderia
14. Ford GT
13. Subaru Impreza RB5 PPP [1999]
12. Ferrari F40
11. Porsche 911 GT3 RS [997]
10. Mitsubishi Evo VI Makkinen
9. Mazda MX-5 1.6
7=. Ferrari F50
7=. Renaultsport Clio Trophy [2005]
6. Lotus Elan [1973]
5. Renaultsport Mégane R26.R
4. Caterham Superlight R300
3. Porsche 911 GT3 [996]
2. Lotus 340R
1. Pagani Zonda F