fbw v cable.

[haitch]

looking at the one of the bbt packages, they say.. 'we are able to modify the angle of which the throttle opens in relation to how far the pedal is pushed ie: we can make the throttle body open fully with only a slight touch of the pedal if required. you cant do that with any cable!' so for those thinking of na tuning without a tb 'kit', is this a good thing over getting the mk2 rs converted back to cable? is this done via the ecu? looking for advantages/disadvantages & other detailed explanation, as soon il be looking at either a tb 'kit' or other na options. liking the bbt '220' vid, engine sounds punchy, liking that they use the original ecu which will apeal to many, obviously tbs require other management tho.

 

[Griff]

Edit that with some sentances and I'll try and answer your question.

 

[edde]

I'd go for a proper throttle cable all the time.

 

[haitch]

there plenty of commas, question marks & full stops for you to take a breath, its not an english expo. if you dont want to try & answer the question then dont. some ppl bore the sh*t out of me with their bullsh*t replys.

 

[Griff]

 

[edde]

looking at the one of the bbt packages, they say.. 'we are able to modify the angle of which the throttle opens in relation to how far the pedal is pushed ie: we can make the throttle body open fully with only a slight touch of the pedal if required. you cant do that with any cable!' so for those thinking of na tuning without a tb 'kit', is this a good thing over getting the mk2 rs converted back to cable? is this done via the ecu? looking for advantages/disadvantages & other detailed explanation, as soon il be looking at either a tb 'kit' or other na options. liking the bbt '220' vid, engine sounds punchy, liking that they use the original ecu which will apeal to many, obviously tbs require other management tho.

Nick hill has now got a package whihc from the sounds of it uses the phase 2 ECU etc but a cable throttle body for a decient price.
BBt package is going to me a ECU remap thing. The problem would be you'd have all your throttle adjustamnt over half the normal distant which driving on the limti sin't a good idea as a tiny chnage and you'd loose a load of power/control.

 

[haitch]

Nick isnt ready yet, spoke to him recently.

 

[Peperami]

Lol at griff! Just lock his thread mate... hehe

 

[BenR]

I like cable because of the simplicty and feel, but there is no real worry asto which one 'should' use.

If i was competing, cable.......

But there is a renault sport kit which you just bolt on that converts FBW to cable.

 

[MarkM]

Edit that with some sentances and I'll try and answer your question.

You wouldnt know the answer anyway:rasp:

The problem with the FBW is response time. The bbpt solution sounds like they are making it more sensitive but this would give less adjustment ie you dont necessarily want full throttle from a small movement.

IMO the cable throttle is a massive improvement but against it the OMEX is a massive step backwards vs the standard ECU. I would probably wait for Nick Hills system or get TBs which would give you a big step in performance.

PS hope this passes Griffs grammar check, yawn.

 

[Lagerlout]

The renaultsport kit requires a bit of jiggery pokery with the wiring loom to work correctly - Nick Hill has it pretty much sussed - He has it working in a mk2 172.

The group N ECU/remap really sharpens the throttle response - opens the throttle much quicker than the std ECU.

 

[haitch]

looking forward to cable at some point, as im happy with the power mine has (for now), but unless im accelerating up throught the gears, it seems im sometimes waiting forever for 4.2k revs, then i get it all. brake ducts arrive tmo, so a proper caf may help response.

 

[Griff]

You wouldnt know the answer anyway:rasp:

The problem with the FBW is response time. The bbpt solution sounds like they are making it more sensitive but this would give less adjustment ie you dont necessarily want full throttle from a small movement.

IMO the cable throttle is a massive improvement but against it the OMEX is a massive step backwards vs the standard ECU. I would probably wait for Nick Hills system or get TBs which would give you a big step in performance.

PS hope this passes Griffs grammar check, yawn.

Boyfriend keeping you awake at night? Aaw bless..

Anyway I would have tried to answer the question but if someone is too lazy to use grammar above a five year olds then I tend to not bother.

Oh and before we get into a big debate about reasons I have dyslexia and I make the effort to format my replies and posts correctly.

 

[haitch]

Laingo, as i said Nick isnt ready yet, it all works okay but he has one thing to sort out before he can offer a package. group n is off as i already have smt6.

 

[MarkM]

Boyfriend keeping you awake at night? Aaw bless..

Anyway I would have tried to answer the question but if someone is too lazy to use grammar above a five year olds then I tend to not bother.

Oh and before we get into a big debate about reasons I have dyslexia and I make the effort to format my replies and posts correctly.

There has been an interesting technical question asked regarding clio tuning and your posting pointless replies.

Why does anyone want to see a forum moderator putting other people down and posting up childish pictures. I dont think I paid my membership fee for that.

Am I right in saying your a bit of a t**t?

 

[haitch]

Griff if you want to start an english grammar debate, start another thread. this ones about fbw v cable.

 

[BenR]

lol, what is going on here hahaha.

 

[Griff]

There has been an interesting technical question asked regarding clio tuning and your posting pointless replies.

Why does anyone want to see a forum moderator putting other people down and posting up childish pictures. I dont think I paid my membership fee for that.

Am I right in saying your a bit of a tw*t?

I must have skipped the "whiter than white" class in Mod school and I assumed I was allowed an opinion but obviously not.

letz orll right lik fis frm nowon ten shall wee?

Muppet.

 

[Munson]

I am with Griff on this one. It grinds my gears when adults can't string a logical and reasonable sentence together without even using such basics as capital letters to start a new one.

 

[BenR]

Peter griffin, is that you?

 

[haitch]

same goes for you Munson, go start your own interesting grammar thread, if you have nothing to say about cable or fbw, get off my thread you idiot.

 

[haitch]

pfft

 

[Evil Ally]

The laggy throttle on the clio bugs me. Even my 1.2 had the same problem. When changing gear you take your foot off the throttle, put the clutch down. But due to throttle lag, the throttle is still open and you get a huge rev spike. I find this means you have to dely the change a little to let the throttle catch up. I would have cable like a shot but I like my traction/cruise

 

[haitch]

some like their toys! mine doesnt have tc or cruise so i wont miss them.

 

[MarkM]

I am with Griff on this one. It grinds my gears when adults can't string a logical and reasonable sentence together without even using such basics as capital letters to start a new one.

What a surprise anything that is a bit controversial and Munson raises his ugly head You are a very shallow man if you find something so trivial so annoying.

Back on topic though. If you could have the cable without the drawbacks there would be no hesitation in recommending it.

I have had my setup for probably about 8 months now and am getting used to the OMEX issues. I dont think I would want to change back to the FBW so I suppose the pros outweigh the cons. Although another OMEX issue that has been extremely annoying recently is the car wont idle with the air con on!

OMEX problems are

lose TC ESP (so what)
potentially lose air con (I dont think ross' car does this)
cold start (takes a few attempts)
jerky off throttle at low revs
christmas tree dash

I suppose you buy a modern car you want it to run like a modern car. The OMEX takes this away.

NOTE that most of these issues are probably down to mapping.......

I may get Ben to have a go at mapping when he gets sorted.

 

[Neil G]

I've never driven a 172 with cable throttle so I don't know how different it is to the fbw system.

Why is there hestiation in the response in the fbw system anyway?

 

[stan*]

MarkM

The ecu itself shouldnt cause ur problems, its how its set-up that will. poor idle with accesories on sounds like poor idle control, jerky off throttle sounds like poor mapping (or maybe innacurate TPS calibration), same goes for cold start...it should be fine.

My T.B mk1 drives smoother, nicer, starts fine, idles fine (with wild cams)...real smooth car to drive...this is with an Emerald ECU...tho the hardware at that level is irrelevant, its the setting up and mapping.

 

[MarkM]

MarkM

The ecu itself shouldnt cause ur problems, its how its set-up that will. poor idle with accesories on sounds like poor idle control, jerky off throttle sounds like poor mapping (or maybe innacurate TPS calibration), same goes for cold start...it should be fine.

My T.B mk1 drives smoother, nicer, starts fine, idles fine (with wild cams)...real smooth car to drive...this is with an Emerald ECU...tho the hardware at that level is irrelevant, its the setting up and mapping.

After discussing these issues with various people, including yourself, that is the conclusion I have come too.

I just need to find someone that CAN map and CAN iron out these problems. I wouldnt want to spend 200-400£ without it being sorted.

 

[stan*]

The only person i can and will suggest (as i dont have my rolling road yet) is in Carlise (as i think weve discussed before?).

 

[MarkM]

The only person i can and will suggest (as i dont have my rolling road yet) is in Carlise (as i think weve discussed before?).

Yes we did but its too far for me.

 

[Fred@BTM]

the other main problem with yours Mark is its a race throttle body, its designed to open quickly hence some of the low down "Jerk"

 

[Fred@BTM]

take it to lester owen in telford, he recently mapped our cup

 

[MarkM]

take it to lester owen in telford, he recently mapped our cup

are you recommending him?

any contact details and a rough idea on price.

 

[Fred@BTM]

i'll find out for you, he's very good builds/maps some of the quickest beemers out there

 

[MarkM]

i'll find out for you, he's very good builds/maps some of the quickest beemers out there

thanks

your cup runs an OMEX doesnt it?

 

[Fred@BTM]

yeah 600 same as yours

 

[BenR]

Mark, once its setup correctly you wont have a problem.

Jerkyness is all down to the ignition/fuel maps in majority, and you can compensate for when the extra load of the aircon kicks in to stop stalling.

 

[Turkish]

And y ?*


















*The answer is in the question.

 

[matty w]

the other main problem with yours Mark is its a race throttle body, its designed to open quickly hence some of the low down "Jerk"

i still cant see the need for such a large throttle body on a 200bhp car,the cars its used on are nearly 300bhp and rev to 9k+,

 

[Fred@BTM]

Mark has the 64mm body which is the same size as OE IIRC

the BTCC and WTCC cars use the same Jenvey 64mm body and they're all about 300bhp NA