Ford Focus RS : day 136 : The stop-start system...useless?

[MarkCup]

Opinions on this stop-start malarky? I quite like it myself...

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

Will watch the video in a bit, but it's the first thing I do when I jump in my van...turn the stop start off. Hate it for some reason

 

[imprezaworks]

Awful idea imo

 

[MarkCup]

Will watch the video in a bit, but it's the first thing I do when I jump in my van...turn the stop start off. Hate it for some reason

So many say this...and I kind of understand it but am happy to just let it get on with doing it's thing.

To quote my thumbnail text...why the hate?

 

[MarkCup]

Awful idea imo

Why's that?

 

[imprezaworks]

Why the like?.

That question made no sense lol.

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

So many say this...and I kind of understand it but am happy to just let it get on with doing it's thing.

To quote my thumbnail text...why the hate?

I think my main hate stems from it cutting the aircon out. I love driving in a mobile fridge so even 30 seconds with it off is enough to annoy me lol

 

[MarkCup]

I think my main hate stems from it cutting the aircon out. I love driving in a mobile fridge so even 30 seconds with it off is enough to annoy me lol

As I said in my video...this is a very valid point! I'm the opposite, roof open and zero aircon at every opportunity hence me being happy for it to keep cutting out.

 

[Dan]

I don't mind stop start but, I also see why people don't.

If there was a pre lube pump etc to flow oil round the turbo when its off etc I wouldn't have any problem at all.

But turbos don't like running hard then stopping with no oil being pumped round etc etc.

It is a good thing to have for town driving be my drive to work is down a B-road so it's pointless imo.

Good to have when I nip into a city etc though.

 

[MarkCup]

I don't mind stop start but, I also see why people don't.

If there was a pre lube pump etc to flow oil round the turbo when its off etc I wouldn't have any problem at all.

But turbos don't like running hard then stopping with no oil being pumped round etc etc.

It is a good thing to have for town driving be my drive to work is down a B-road so it's pointless imo.

Good to have when I nip into a city etc though.

I do get the turbo thing...but modern turbos are, compared to days gone by, such small things with little inertia that they take no time to run down...people that feel the need to sit idling in their modern turbo cars before shutting down make me chuckle LOL

Besides which the car's ECU wouldn't let it auto shut down if the turbine was still spinning away...the car has to be at idle which, by definition, means the turbo is as good as idle too.

 

[Ian_182]

I thought ford would have moved their game on a bit to get past silly things like a dodgy sunroof.
Also the coolant problem is weird.

 

[MarkCup]

Why the like?.

That question made no sense lol.

Ha ha it did!

My like for it simply comes from a dislike of waste...and burning fuel when stationery is a complete waste! Yes it's a negligible amount...but it's still wasted.

 

[McGherkin]

Well implemented, it's fine, IMO. It's just when they f**k it up and it's slow to react etc. By fitting these systems it lowers the CO2 rating of the car and that means they can emit more CO2 in performance scenarios, i.e. they can fit a better engine if they fit it with start/stop.

When I was on my diving course I had an Astra 1.4T as a company car, which had it, and I didn't mind it at all. It only turned the engine off when I wasn't using it and it fired up quick enough when I did want to use it.

Ref the thing about it starting up again after a short while, if it's anything like the Astra I reckon it's brake servo vac pressure. It obviously keeps some vacuum stored so you can press the brakes once with the engine off, but it bleeds down after a short while so the engine has to start up again and rebuild that vacuum. I could make the Astra fire up by pumping the brake pedal, and therefore using up that vacuum. It's probably some safety directive that says that you must be able to use the brakes if someone runs into you or something.

P.S. I've never heard such exciting music used to accompany someone filling up their car.

 

[imprezaworks]

Ha ha it did!

My like for it simply comes from a dislike of waste...and burning fuel when stationery is a complete waste! Yes it's a negligible amount...but it's still wasted.

Main idea is to be more green, less harmful to the environment etc. It saves burning fuel as you say but with the start/stop doing its thing, is it not putting added (minimal, granted) on other things?.

 

[Dan]

I do get the turbo thing...but modern turbos are, compared to days gone by, such small things with little inertia that they take no time to run down...people that feel the need to sit idling in their modern turbo cars before shutting down make me chuckle LOL

Besides which the car's ECU wouldn't let it auto shut down if the turbine was still spinning away...the car has to be at idle which, by definition, means the turbo is as good as idle too.

Yes I know they are much better than older turbos, but I see multiple issues with turbine/ rotating items failing due to incorrect cooling cycles on shut down, the whole thing of passing oil through a turbo isn't just about lubrication.

At the end of the day though it probably won't cause a problem within 100k and 10/15 years so really it's not a problem at all.

Just for me, being an engineer and using the car for B-roads etc most of the time it's causing a potential problem that could be prevented, also at the end of the day who buys and RS for mpg lol.

But I also see the reason it's fitted as a lot of them are used in cities and towns most of the time.

 

[Detail Chris]

Mark, letting the car idle after kicking its head in is not to let the impeller stop. It's so that the turbo, bearings etc etc a chance to be cooled by the oil and water being pumped around it. Oil can turn to sludge in a red hot turbo if just sitting there stagnant.

 

[McGherkin]

Mark, letting the car idle after kicking its head in is not to let the impeller stop. It's so that the turbo, bearings etc etc a chance to be cooled by the oil and water being pumped around it. Oil can turn to sludge in a red hot turbo if just sitting there stagnant.

...and whilst most modern turbo setups do have an aftercool system in place to keep the coolant flowing, I'd much rather it was aftercooling a fairly cool turbo than a red hot one.

That said, it's not going to automatically stop the engine with everything red hot. It'll only do it with oil/coolant temps in the everyday region.

 

[MarkCup]

I thought ford would have moved their game on a bit to get past silly things like a dodgy sunroof.
Also the coolant problem is weird.

It seems to be electrical gremlins only...three times it's happened in completely different circumstances and it's always resolved itself immediately. It seems to not really be an issue but I will report it come service time and show them the video footage I have just so it's reported and logged.

P.S. I've never heard such exciting music used to accompany someone filling up their car.

Actual genuine LOLs. I'm tight, the choice of free music out there is limited and, well, sh*te.

Yes I know they are much better than older turbos, but I see multiple issues with turbine/ rotating items failing due to incorrect cooling cycles on shut down, the whole thing of passing oil through a turbo isn't just about lubrication.

At the end of the day though it probably won't cause a problem within 100k and 10/15 years so really it's not a problem at all.

Just for me, being an engineer and using the car for B-roads etc most of the time it's causing a potential problem that could be prevented, also at the end of the day who buys and RS for mpg lol.

But I also see the reason it's fitted as a lot of them are used in cities and towns most of the time.

As it did in the video there are many many times it doesn't shut the engine down, it's not something it just does every single time...that says to me that it's a very clever thing and will only do it when the parameters are absolutely right for it. Thinking about it there are more times I come to a stop and it doesn't shut down than there are when it does.

Mark, letting the car idle after kicking its head in is not to let the impeller stop. It's so that the turbo, bearings etc etc a chance to be cooled by the oil and water being pumped around it. Oil can turn to sludge in a red hot turbo if just sitting there stagnant.

Understood...as said above though it's not just a "car's in neutral, clutch is lifted, let's switch off" thing...it only does it if it deems it right at the time...and I'm sure that accounts for all manner of pressure and temperature readings. My true test will be when I take it on track...I'll leave it engaged just to see if it does shut down when everything is proper toasty.

 

[Detail Chris]

It seems to be electrical gremlins only...three times it's happened in completely different circumstances and it's always resolved itself immediately. It seems to not really be an issue but I will report it come service time and show them the video footage I have just so it's reported and logged.



Actual genuine LOLs. I'm tight, the choice of free music out there is limited and, well, sh*te.



As it did in the video there are many many times it doesn't shut the engine down, it's not something it just does every single time...that says to me that it's a very clever thing and will only do it when the parameters are absolutely right for it. Thinking about it there are more times I come to a stop and it doesn't shut down than there are when it does.



Understood...as said above though it's not just a "car's in neutral, clutch is lifted, let's switch off" thing...it only does it if it deems it right at the time...and I'm sure that accounts for all manner of pressure and temperature readings. My true test will be when I take it on track...I'll leave it engaged just to see if it does shut down when everything is proper toasty.

My explanation is merely generic for turbocharged engines. It doesn't account for aftercool systems as said and modern stop/start tech (which I know very little about)

 

[Sir_Dave]

For me, i simply hate the lack of noise, hearing the RS3/diesel thing going bwwwwwaaaaaaarrrrrrrr, then silence, then bwwwwwaaaaaaarrrrrrrr then silence, then bwwwwwaaaaaaarrrrrrrr, then silence does my head in. Dont care if it burns an extra 2p in fuel or not.

 

[culpz]

All depends on the car i think. I had use of a 2016 BMW 118i M Sport for a bout 2-3 weeks and the stop/start technology in that was awful. It was really rough and violent when shutting off and restarting. Not particularly pleasant

However, my current A4 is much better. You can barely tell when it kicks in or restarts. It's just very subtle. However, it can catch you out if you knock it into neutral and suddenly want to set off again, while it's just cut off.

 

[green]

My Mrs Audi Q3 has stop/start.. I don't mind it but the bloody thing never does it! We've had it just over a year and I think it's done it twice in all that time.

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

Don't mind it in general but on the Golf it cuts out before the car has even come to a stop so if you're coming up to a junction and would normally keep rolling and pull out, you now have an annoying delay while the engine restarts and you're halfway out.

 

[MarkCup]

All depends on the car i think. I had use of a 2016 BMW 118i M Sport for a bout 2-3 weeks and the stop/start technology in that was awful. It was really rough and violent when shutting off and restarting. Not particularly pleasant

However, my current A4 is much better. You can barely tell when it kicks in or restarts. It's just very subtle. However, it can catch you out if you knock it into neutral and suddenly want to set off again, while it's just cut off.

The reason I'm OK with it must be that it just works so well on the RS. I've tried catching it out but can't. No matter what I do it's always running just fine by the time I've got the clutch on the floor ready to select 1st gear.

 

[culpz]

The reason I'm OK with it must be that it just works so well on the RS. I've tried catching it out but can't. No matter what I do it's always running just fine by the time I've got the clutch on the floor ready to select 1st gear.

Do you ever knock it into neutral when still rolling slowly to a halt? I know it's generally frowned upon/illegal but it'll only ever catch you out if you do this. If you don't then it'll never be a problem.

It can be hard to explain. I'd say that @cs_rich explained it well above but if you've knocked it into neutral when rolling to a stop, it will begin to cut-out just before you stop completely. So, if you immediately go to set off, clutch down and into gear just as it starts to shut off, it'll leave you stranded and ask you to re-start the car manually before you're going anywhere again.

In the wrong circumstance/scenario, it can be pretty scary.

 

[R3k1355]

Don't mind it in general but on the Golf it cuts out before the car has even come to a stop so if you're coming up to a junction and would normally keep rolling and pull out, you now have an annoying delay while the engine restarts and you're halfway out.

Our Astra does this and it f***s me right off, just when you've seen a gap the engine shuts down and by the time it's started again it's probably not safe to pull out.
The S/S does nothing for the mpg or anything, but does knock the CO2 rating down by about 10% which is enough to take it into the next tax band :up:

 

[leeds_182]

I'd of rammed you for taking so long at the pump.

I'll be honest, I had you down as someone that uses the disposable gloves.

 

[Silent_Scone]

 

[MarkCup]

Do you ever knock it into neutral when still rolling slowly to a halt? I know it's generally frowned upon/illegal but it'll only ever catch you out if you do this. If you don't then it'll never be a problem.

It can be hard to explain. I'd say that @cs_rich explained it well above but if you've knocked it into neutral when rolling to a stop, it will begin to cut-out just before you stop completely. So, if you immediately go to set off, clutch down and into gear just as it starts to shut off, it'll leave you stranded and ask you to re-start the car manually before you're going anywhere again.

In the wrong circumstance/scenario, it can be pretty scary.

I don't, no, I only ever do the neutral clutch up thing if I'm stopped and know there'll be a wait. It works really well on the Focus...it's really quick to fire up, there's never any wait, it's just ready to go when I want to go.

I'd of rammed you for taking so long at the pump.

I'll be honest, I had you down as someone that uses the disposable gloves.

Pah! It takes no longer than most people take to stow bags, phones, keys, wallet, whatever.

 

[Niall]

Really from the information you gave about the saving you actually make, stop-start is utterly pointless for the consumer. But nonetheless it's pretty inoffensive so I wouldn't care if my car had it.

 

[Ricardos]

Mark, aside of the the car have you thought to maybe do a video of.... How you edit, make the videos? What equipments involved, time and effort into doing each one. I guess a behind the lense look of whats involved, it's becoming an increasing interest what with social media nowadays so (to me) it's kind of interesting how you'd piece it all together.

 

[Lozza-p]

I hate it, Always feels like it does it at the wrong times. Although it is destroying clutch's and flywheel's so thats good for my work.

 

[MarkCup]

Mark, aside of the the car have you thought to maybe do a video of.... How you edit, make the videos? What equipments involved, time and effort into doing each one. I guess a behind the lense look of whats involved, it's becoming an increasing interest what with social media nowadays so (to me) it's kind of interesting how you'd piece it all together.

I have, yes, but the thought of me making a video about me making a video even makes me feel a bit nauseous!

Being serious I do intend to do a simple filming in-car one, what angles/mounts and locations for cameras but more importantly...the importance of good audio.

So many just stick a GoPro to the windscreen and you can barely hear a word being said. Audio quality/clarity is so important. Mine's getting better, but I'd still happily spend a few £k on some proper kit!

 

[DrR]

I’d love to know what people’s le use to edit GoPro videos, I coding find anything that was simple and easy, main reason I sold mine.

 

[McGherkin]

I use Adobe Premiere Pro. There's nothing special about them.