forged piston compression ratios?

[simondavies89]

Hi

Im looking into getting some forged pistons to go over 300bhp but I dont understand the different ratios. what would be best for this type of power?

cheers

 

[Dan@SJM]

I assume you'll be boosting it, so you'll need 8.5:1.

 

[simondavies89]

its already turbo'd but its on standard internals with ED's low compression head gasket at 241 bhp. so 8.5:1 is what I need, I'm assuming I will have to remove the L/C head gasket and return to normal?

could I get away without forged rods or are they a must?

 

[WilkyWay]

Forged rods are sensible as 300hp is at the limit or standard stuff. If you use Wossners with megane head gasket you'll have 8.5:1. With a standard clio gasket you'll have 9.0:1.

 

[Dan@SJM]

As above.

I can supply forged pistons and con rods too at a great price too.

 

[simondavies89]

im assuming its an engine out job to install all of this?, would it be worth getting new belts fitted aswell in the process?

thinking about the air con delete kit aswell, slight power gains, weight loss and mainly to free up some space http://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/details.php?itemid=170&model=-1

??

 

[WilkyWay]

Yeah you'll want the engine out. In one go you'll need to do the clutch, pistons and rods, and belts. Everything else can be done in the car.

 

[simondavies89]

cant realy afford to upgrade gearbox and diff at the same time but i can do that at a later date, will that be ok?

so i need uprated clutch, forged pistons/rods, megane head gasket, oil cooler kit and bigger air filter (mines already slightly restrictive) and thats it sorted engine wise?

i have a slight leak from my oil return. its had a pipe welded into the sump but it seems to be leaking in between. thinking of getting a different kit to sort it. any recommendations?

 

[Chi]

Cost a lot more to do seperate..

 

[Dan@SJM]

I'd just get the pipe rewelded if it's leaking.

Yes engine out, I'd advise a rebore too. I supply oversized pistons at no extra cost. Belts shouldn't be reused. Megane gasket will be 8.5:1 clio gasket will make it 9:1.

 

[simondavies89]

Cost a lot more to do seperate..

why a lot more? i wouldnt have to touch the engine again would i?

just do the gearbox and lsd later on, same amount of work, just a differnt day?

 

[simondavies89]

I'd just get the pipe rewelded if it's leaking.

Yes engine out, I'd advise a rebore too. I supply oversized pistons at no extra cost. Belts shouldn't be reused. Megane gasket will be 8.5:1 clio gasket will make it 9:1.

rebore, this mean sending the engine away? want to avoid that if possible. is it totaly necassary?

 

[Dan@SJM]

Depends if your block is worn. I'd recommend it as just throwing a set of forged pistons in a worn bore won't last very long.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'm with dan on the rebore. For the sake of a couple hundred quid (you have to fit new squirters too which increases the cost) I would go up a size on the pistons. A worn bore then rehone it for the new rings/pistons won't last as long and if you are spending a couple of grand anyway to do it all then an extra couple hundred to make it last longer is a relatively small additional investment.

 

[simondavies89]

what are sprayers? (bare with my lack of knowledge)

You know of any tuners who will take the car and deal with the rebore or do i need to get this done prior?

 

[hilldawg172]

They spray oil on the bottom of the pistons

 

[Gray]

Simon,

I think you need to do some reading and research.

Forgive my ignorance but it sounds like you don't really know what this kind of work involves.

Forged pistons, conrods and ARP fasteners £900ish

Belts, tensioners, bearings, gaskets, seals, fasteners, oil jets etc. £600

Machine work - 83.00mm rebore, skimming, balancing (for the mimimal extra cost do it), chemical cleaning £300ish

Oils, fluids, filters £200ish

Then you need somebody who can build an engine and knows what they are doing.

Certainly not a cheap job to do it right.


What turbo are you currently running?

8.5:1 / 9.0:1 is the comp ratio you want to aim for with off the shelf parts.

 

[simondavies89]

^^^ thank you, very helpfull. this i'snt going to happen immanently i'm just beginning the research now in order to gain a good understanding of what
I need, buy a few parts along the way and eventualy get the work done. but yes ur right i dont realy know atm but i will

the turbo is a gt28rs

All im looking to do (after plenty of research) is buy the main parts at the best discount I can, find some one who is reputable with a good quote to do the work and hand it over ideally some one who can take the car from me, take the engine out, do the work and put it back in.

Engine dynamics do engine builds. do you know is they rebore aswell?

think il call them tomoro to get an idea, there normaly not bad with cost in comparison to other places

thanks for your help ^^^

 

[WilkyWay]

Speak to Andy@clioturbo.co.uk he might be able to sort your engine build.

 

[simondavies89]

I'm with dan on the rebore. For the sake of a couple hundred quid (you have to fit new squirters too which increases the cost) I would go up a size on the pistons. A worn bore then rehone it for the new rings/pistons won't last as long and if you are spending a couple of grand anyway to do it all then an extra couple hundred to make it last longer is a relatively small additional investment.

fitting new squirters? is it just a case of replacing them with new ones? ive seen a set on ED. just out or curiosity, why do they need replaced?

 

[Chip-mk1]

fitting new squirters? is it just a case of replacing them with new ones? ive seen a set on ED. just out or curiosity, why do they need replaced?

Just need replacing cause you cant take them out and put them back in without damaging them and they are in the way when you bore the block.

 

[bartebk]

Simon,

I think you need to do some reading and research.

Forgive my ignorance but it sounds like you don't really know what this kind of work involves.

Forged pistons, conrods and ARP fasteners £900ish

Belts, tensioners, bearings, gaskets, seals, fasteners, oil jets etc. £600

Machine work - 83.00mm rebore, skimming, balancing (for the mimimal extra cost do it), chemical cleaning £300ish

Oils, fluids, filters £200ish

Then you need somebody who can build an engine and knows what they are doing.

Certainly not a cheap job to do it right.


What turbo are you currently running?

8.5:1 / 9.0:1 is the comp ratio you want to aim for with off the shelf parts.

I'm on doing mine, this is the kind of money your looking at, plus a clutch as if your running standard it probably won't last long and if you've got the engine out it would be silly not to, about £300 dependant on what your putting in

Injectors??

 

[bartebk]

As above.

I can supply forged pistons and con rods too at a great price too.

Agree, and good advice

 

[simondavies89]

i gave andy at ED a call today, he said they can offer a drive in drive out service with full strip, rebore, rebuild with alot of other important replacements which would probably cost me alot more if i tried to source myself and its hassle free. its looking like a good option to me but im still asking about to see what other options there are.

i called CRturbos today to check my turbo spec, its a GT2860rs which seems good for what i want from what ive read?? also can you tell me what the 'rs' stands for?

 

[Chip-mk1]

It doesn't have an official meaning as far as I'm aware. But it will be a roller bearing.

 

[simondavies89]

it was a roller bearing when i sent it to them but they said they had replaced it for a ball bearing setup? iirc they said if i was to replace the worn part it would of been a full cartridge replacement but changing it for a ball bearing setup was cheaper and would be easier and cheaper to refurbish in the future if needed?

 

[simondavies89]

just got an email from andy at clioturbo with a good drive in drive out quote aswell. plus he can get it to efi parts for mapping which is good as scoff was the one who did my current conversion so is farmiliar with my car and ecu. couple of good options now.

looks like il play around with getting my 197 brembos fitted then look at handing it over for the upgrade

 

[Cupman29]

it was a roller bearing when i sent it to them but they said they had replaced it for a ball bearing setup? iirc they said if i was to replace the worn part it would of been a full cartridge replacement but changing it for a ball bearing setup was cheaper and would be easier and cheaper to refurbish in the future if needed?

turbo types are roller bearing and journal bearing so the RS is a roller. It's the same turbo I have and with supporting mods has been proven to 340bhp!

just got an email from andy at clioturbo with a good drive in drive out quote aswell. plus he can get it to efi parts for mapping which is good as scoff was the one who did my current conversion so is farmiliar with my car and ecu. couple of good options now.

looks like il play around with getting my 197 brembos fitted then look at handing it over for the upgrade

Scoff does mapping for both your options and mapped mine and many others too. Both your options I'm sure would be good for you.

Is the ED package still an AEM piggy back?

 

[simondavies89]

cheers, um not sure about the piggy back question? what don you meen, my clio is already running on the adaptronic standalone that chris installed.

what i ment by the second option was that they will organize for it to go to chris's for mapping whereas with the ED option i would pick the car up and have to arrange mapping myself. second ones just abit less hassle.

good news about the proven turbo bhp, thanks.

if i say some stuff that sounds abit off, u will have to bare with me as im learning as im goin along realy but thanks for all your help

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

If ed did the original conversion it will be a aem system and not a standalone like I offer.

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

** chris did this simon. U will have the 420d I know who you are now

 

[simondavies89]

yeh chris did the conversion and the mapping. the kit was pieced together by myself then taken to efi for all the work. no who i am? have we spoke?

whilst im on, does anyone no were i can get a set of transfer pipes for 197 brembos? ive been stripping them today but one join was stiff and ive rounded and mis-shaped the head so id prefer to get a new set? ive tried biggred but they dont stock anything for them?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Someone like think automotive can probably copy it if you send the old one.

 

[simondavies89]

^^ thanks ive given them a call

 

[Cupman29]

yeh chris did the conversion and the mapping. the kit was pieced together by myself then taken to efi for all the work. no who i am? have we spoke?

whilst im on, does anyone no were i can get a set of transfer pipes for 197 brembos? ive been stripping them today but one join was stiff and ive rounded and mis-shaped the head so id prefer to get a new set? ive tried biggred but they dont stock anything for them?

I presume you have as you got a quote from him and its not ED. lol

 

[simondavies89]

lol, right so andy from clioturbo i guess? where is the garage/workshop?

 

[Gray]

lol, right so andy from clioturbo i guess? where is the garage/workshop?

County Durham / Newcastle.

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

Was talking to chris about your car last time I was down. Just I belive you still run the in tank setup and we were talking about it

 

[simondavies89]

i was running the in-tank but i was having trouble with fueling and it was very tempermental. i bought a walbro 255 pump and the ph1 fuel rail and brand new renault on-rail regulator that chris fitted and its ran perfect since, take it you havnt seen him recently enough to mention me looking at having more done?

il have to give you a call sooner to when i can look at having the work done. ive got some bits that need some attention atm and im moving into a new flat so hopefully wont be long after but i assume your not going anywere soon.